Top Ten Armies of the World

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Warhammer RE:Top Ten Armies of the World- warhammer 6/5/2004 5:23:45 AM

Umm... I didn't exactly say that 3 carrier groups would single handedly defeat europe, but anyway... The actual sentence that I included the 3 carrier groups, was referring all to the european production facilities. I didn't say anything about them taking out the entire european air force by themselves. All I said that europe wouldn't have any aircraft production facilities left before it was too late. I said that europe couldn't withstand 3 carrier groups, and heavy bombers flying in from the states, and reinforcement carrier groups, and let alone the fact that we could even have fighters flying in from our various bases in the azores, iceland, and greenland. Oh, and did anyone notice the fact that we have air bases littered all over the middle east that are a hop skip and a JDAM away from european production facilities? The USAF/Navy with its almost 7k fighters and bombers is more than enough to take on all the world's air forces at the same time. The main problem is getting rid of the russian litter laying about over half the world. Too bad it is so poorly maintained and updated, or it might pose a bit more of a threat than target practice. Anything under a Mig-25 and you might as well consider it trash, leaving the russian arsenal with perhaps 2k planes that are the core of that force. China has roughly 3k mig 19s and 21s, which is just a lot of target practice. Also, the United States practically has a monopoly on bombers in the world. The only other nation with any notable ones is russia, and there are only a few of those still flying. Also note that the united states holds 53% of the fleet power in the world. Coupled with the massive air force, there isn't much chance of the rest of the world catching up since the US can hit you at will, and still produce in relative peace. BTW, I stand corrected on the fighter numbers(just barely). France has almost 1k fighters exactly, and netherlands makes up almost another 1k(800 tornadoes) so europe can last a bit longer than I thought, though it still doesn't change the fact that all of europe's production facilities are ash, and after that it is only a short time until the last of the mirages are out of commission. Here is some info: (note: France and the Netherlands hold the most significant quantities of fighters with very few if any bombers, after that it is all negligible. Perhaps the rest of europes added together might make the equivalent of having another france...) Mirage F1 FR 340 Mirage 2000 FR 408 Mirage III FR 152 Mirage V FR 169 Rafale FR 10 EF-2000 (Typhoon) NT 40 Tornado NT 800 Jaguar NT 166 F-104 (Starfighter) US 102 F-14A (Tomcat) US 140 F-14B/D (Bombcat) US 110 F-15 (Eagle) US 870 F-16 (Falcon) US 2,565 F-18A (Hornet) US 850 F-18E (Super Hornet) US 120 F-22 (Raptor) US 12 F-4 (Phantom) US 768 F-5E (Tiger) US 1,177 A-10 (Warthog) US 210 A-4 (Skyhawk) US 184 AC-130U (Spooky) US 21 B-1B US 90 B-2 US 21 B-52 (BUFF) US 90 EA-6E (Intruder) US 110 F-111F (Aardvark) US 32 F-117A US 44 F-15E (Strike Eagle) US 190

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bigtasty RE:Top Ten Armies of the World- ex98 6/5/2004 7:49:14 AM

granted maybe the u.s is not that reliant on the oil of the middle east,but what of the u.s future rivals the e.u and china? We cannot quickly dismiss any future actions,anything is a possiblity,re ww2 the dutch east indies was of importance to america,not soley for its own need,but rather for being a massive spanner in the jap warmachine.

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ex-98C RE:Top Ten Armies of the World- warhammer 6/5/2004 1:11:38 PM

?Umm... I didn't exactly say that 3 carrier groups would single handedly defeat europe, but anyway? - Wait for it?. ?Do you think that the combined air forces of europe could withstand 8 weeks of bombardment from the 3 Carriers we have in the region?? - Seems to me that you ARE suggesting that 3 Carriers could stand against Europe alone ?Oh, and did anyone notice the fact that we have air bases littered all over the middle east that are a hop skip and a JDAM away from european production facilities?? - Oh Really? Where? Turkey isn?t going to let us use Incerlik.. they are going to keep their head down as much as possible? Iraq? As far as I know we haven?t set up the logistics their for a major air campaign. Saudi Arabia? We do have the Facilities there but 1500 miles is a bit more than a hop skip and a jump. ?The USAF/Navy with its almost 7k fighters and bombers is more than enough to take on all the world's air forces at the same time? - Where are you getting your numbers? My stats showing all US fighter/bombers from Active/Reserve/NG from the Air Force/Navy/Marines shows about 3,000 and that includes the ones in storage! ?China has roughly 3k mig 19s and 21s, which is just a lot of target practice.? - Which after you have fired all your missiles and there are still a thousand swarming at you doesn?t seem like such an insignificant force. Not to mention that they have at least 300-500 J-10s,J-11s,Su-27s,SU30s which are more than enough to make an Eagle or Viper driver sweat. Basically what it all boils down to Warhammer is that you have an over confident view of the US Military, and that is THE most dangerous attitude to have. Is The US military the strongest in the world? Most definitely, Does it theoretically have more firepower than the combined forces of Europe? Probably, That doesn?t mean that we could take Europe out with half our navy and long distance Air strikes. Just because you are the best doesn?t mean someone who is good can?t beat you if the game is set up to his advantage.

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ex-98C RE:Top Ten Armies of the World- Big 6/5/2004 1:13:01 PM

No saying that certain events could not happen, what I am saying is that the US would not be invading to fulfil its own needs.

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Warhammer RE:Top Ten Armies of the World- warhammer 6/5/2004 3:57:32 PM

And then you read that sentence in context with the rest of the paragraph, and you find that I was referring to Europes production facilities, and its ability to keep an air force after they have nothing left to build airplanes with. If you thinkI meant that 3 carrier groups were going to own all in that region, then for the record, I am not saying that. What I am saying, is that after all the cruise missiles from the destroyers have been launched, after as many sorties have been launched as possible before the Carrier groups are sunk, that Europe isn't going to have much left that can carry on the fight with a constant onslaught from the States. Tornadoes are nice and all, but a good majority of them are going down before they get close to a carrier group. They don't have the range to get a missile off before a missile meets them. And just what is Turkey going to say that is going to convince us not to launch from their bases? Only thing that would preoccupy those bases is if turkey itself were also at war with us. We could still launch from them, and it isn't like we would expect them to last, but after they finished the first sorties up in Europe, I know there is at least one country that is on our side in this fight, and that is Israel. I am sure they wouldn't mind if we fueled up there. And the fighters in Israel don't need to bomb france, running protection for the carrier groups would be enough. I am getting my numbers from this site BTW. I pasted all the numbers from the warplane database. Nothing dangerous about being confident in the US military strength. I am not president after all, and that is about the only way that it could be dangerous. Besides, saying we could is not saying we would. I do have a confident view of our military, but that is not what is over confident. I just have very small confidence and respect in the rest of the world's militaries, namely the Air Forces and Navies. And my main point was that military wise, the game would be set up in our advantage, and the main advantage that the rest of the world has is land area, population, and time.

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bigtasty RE:Top Ten Armies of the World- warhammer 6/5/2004 4:43:23 PM

warhammer those three carrier gruops have to get past the combined navies of europe before they reach the combined airforces,and air defence systems of europe. it would take all of the u.s navy and airforces assets to dominate europe,im sure that u.s navy and airforce personnel wouldnt dismiss the european militaries as readily as you have. anyway in that scenario whos to say that u.s more obvious rivals like china,n korea and russia wouldnt take this oppurtunity to arse whip the states whilst they would definetely have their hands full in europe?

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Warhammer RE:Top Ten Armies of the World- warhammer 6/5/2004 9:35:06 PM

Well, actually, I am in the USAF. I can't claim that my views are held by anyone else, or that the scenario we are discussing even comes up, ever. Maybe it comes up in higher strategic circles, but who knows. Oh, and the Air Forces don't have to get past your navies and Air forces. In a carrier battle group there are at least 2 guided missile cruisers, sometimes more. Each cruiser holds 120 Tomahawk missiles. That is at least 700 missiles between the 3 groups, not counting any other cruisers that happen to be in the area, and any missiles on subs. 700 missiles is more than enough to ensure that europe doesn't build another plane for a good long time. China isn't going anywhere soon. Poor air force, and little to no navy. I would bet they take advantage of the situation by expanding into their surrounding land, and taking over. As for Russia, they have a lot of equipment, but it would take them months, if not years to bring it out of storage, and get back on their feet. What it really boils down to is exactly defining such a scenario. It isn't very likely that every single nation would be against the US, unless we just went crazy and started dropping bombs on every target of opportunity we found. If the US planned ahead and launched surprise stikes on the EU on some quiet morning, the EU is pretty much screwed. We could have 8 carrier battle groups standing by as well as all kinds of planes coming in from surrounding bases, even bases in the nations we are attacking. It would make the Gulf War look like a picnic in terms of the firepower brought to bare. Simultaneously we could have launched attacks on china, and eastern russia. In such a case, we could have been tracking their navies for months, and strike them all at once when the war started. The EU would be caught so flat footed, France would probably stain it's white flag brown. In a more likely scenario, it wouldn't be all countries VS USA. We would have allies, depending on how the war started would determine who. If the US gets Britain and Japan, the allies(or axis depending on your point of view, or who started the war) would have near total ocean, and air superiority. Also, a lot depends on how long the world would have to build up the military before it started. As it stands, the US side has a tremendous advantage.

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avatar RE:Top Ten Armies of the World- warhammer 6/6/2004 12:57:49 PM

well anyway im pretty sure the usaf would have destroyed half of their own forces by the time they had half way across the atlantic if the god damn friendly fire count in the second gulf war is to go by, i.e american planes killing british ground troops. SORRY but a friend lost his brother recently down to this.

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Warhammer RE:Top Ten Armies of the World- warhammer 6/6/2004 1:56:52 PM

War can get crazy and unpredictable. We have tried to lift the fog of war as much as possible with our technology, but it still isn't perfect.

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American_Infidel RE:Top Ten Armies of the World- warhammer 6/7/2004 4:29:46 PM

I dont see how Isreal is up there! I no they have advanced war weopons but the man power and army size is far too small to compete wit hthe rest!

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Warhammer RE:Top Ten Armies of the World- warhammer 6/7/2004 4:51:42 PM

Because Israel has beaten several nations invading them all at once, on several occasions. They have a track record for success with one of the best trained and equipped militaries in the world. Doesn't mean they could go in and occupy russia, but they are very strong for their size.

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Advocate Of REason American infidel 6/7/2004 4:59:06 PM

Do you even know what your are talking about? Israel has a small army does it? how about those half a million active duty professiolnal soldiers or the other seven hundred well trained reservists? how about having more nukes than india and pakistan together? how about having a larger airforce and armored force than all of its neighbors combined?

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Advocate Of REason infidel 6/7/2004 5:00:34 PM

and i almost forgot the insignificant fact that israel has 3 submarines armed with nuclear tipped cruise missles, that little detail has escaped my mind entierly,so i can see how easy it was for you to overlook it.

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Advocate Of REason correction 6/7/2004 5:02:23 PM

had a little typo, by seven hundred reservists i mean seven hundred THOUSAND reservists

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Patton620 RE:Top Ten Armies of the World 6/8/2004 10:18:40 PM

in my mind the best armies of the world: 1: United States 2: China 3: England 4: Isreal 5: Russia 6: Germany 7: France 8: Italy 9: Spain 10: none

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