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Subject: Top Ten Armies of the World
Arditi    3/4/2004 3:54:10 PM
According to the CIA and other Intelligence Services (European, Asian, African) this is the tally - based on a Combination of Manpower, Technology, Firepower, Training, Resources, Available Reserves, and Nuclear Potential (Current or Likely): 1. USA 2. China 3. Germany 4. India 5. France 6. Russia 7. UK 8. Italy 9. Israel 10. Pakistan
 
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Ad    RE:Top Ten Armies of the World   3/7/2004 12:28:54 PM
The point is that only the US, Britain and France have projection capabilities (in that order), so the top three armies would be; 1)US 2)Britain 3)France The rest don?t matter as your not likely to see them marching up your road any time, ever.
 
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RM-Nod    RE:Top Ten Armies of the World - Gray   3/7/2004 12:40:15 PM
Gray, even if he did mean it in the way you said the list is still not correct, in fact it's even worse. Do you think Germany (with about 280,000 in it ENTIRE armed forces) could face of against India (with arount 990,000 in it's army) without the luftwafee or navy? Or against Russia? I doubt it. Infact Germany would only be just above the UK and below France, since Germany only has 120,000 in it's army, while the UK has about 110,000 (niether including reserve). Also where's korea and many others?
 
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Nasty German Idiot    RE:Top Ten Armies of the World - Gray   3/7/2004 1:12:01 PM
280.000 is only the core, add 400.000 Reservists with their own equipment. (For example the Leopard 1 which were taken out of service, they can still cope with almost every tank the Indian Army has) and further 150.000 Border Guards which are not listed as "Combattants" anymore. They also have their own APC´s, Helicopters and Special Forces (GSG9 for example.) The Airlift capabilities and logistics are still being build up, that is true, but with A-400M, new NH90, MH90, new Generation of Light Vehicles, CH-53 upgrade etc. that will change in the next years. And there are already some 7500 Soldiers from Somalia to Afghanistan stationed abroad, so where is the lack of capability to sustain forces in other countries. If the Invasion of Iraq could not have been started from Kuwait and without month of time to get the equipment to Iraq you wouldnt have such a sucess there. And that is something that Germany could have done also, to bring equipment there by ship is really no difficulty.
 
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RM-Nod    RE:Top Ten Armies of the World - Gray   3/7/2004 1:52:03 PM
Germany doesn't have 400,000 reservists. You have 50,000 (ish). Where did you get 400,000 from? I got my numbers from the German army site. The full numbers are - Army - 123,837 Reserve - 48,003 Air force - 51,348 Navy - 19,874 Total - 243,062 Plus other non-combatants (civilian staff etc) the full german armed forces comes to about 270,000. That includes everything in the armed forces, if we including everything, Britain actually has more than Germany. Army - 109,000 TA - 73,800 Airforce - 52,000 Navy - 42,000 Total - 276,800 Plus other civilian staff etc the full number is about 305,000. The border guards are not soldiers and are not trained as such. It would be like sending armed police into a war, it just doesn't happen. "And there are already some 7500 Soldiers from Somalia to Afghanistan stationed abroad, so where is the lack of capability to sustain forces in other countries." 7,500 soldiers out of a 270,000 man force is not a huge expeditionary ability, the UK had 41,990 troops abroad in 2002 we then deployed 50,000 troops to Iraq bringing the total to 91,990 troops and is now at about 60,000; and we still have the ability to deploy more, that is an expeditionary force. "to bring equipment there by ship is really no difficulty." The German Navy has nowhere near the ability of France or the UK when it come to pretty much anything. Could Germany have got a 50,000 man force plus equipment to Kuwait in a few weeks? I doubt it. Germany is getting much better in this regard but is not there yet.
 
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RM-Nod    RE:Top Ten Armies of the World - mistake   3/7/2004 2:24:11 PM
Sorry made a mistake with the UK numbers, I only included the TA in the reserves number. Here are the true ones as of 2003. Army - 106,730 Army reserve - 154,559 Total Army - 261,289 Navy - 38,580 Navy Reserve - 33,374 Total Navy - 71,954 RAF - 49,700 RAF Reserve - 3,485 Total RAF - 53,185 Total Regulars - 195,010 Total Reserves - 191,458 Grand Total - 386,468 About reserves, I should say the UK has both the Territorial Army reserves and the Regular Reserves, however these are both seperate to the liable for recall. Our liable for recall (short notice) number is about 170,000. NB :- These numbers do not include civilians.
 
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Nasty German Idiot    RE:Top Ten Armies of the World - mistake   3/7/2004 3:29:09 PM
I think you got the German numbers wrong ... you are refering to this site ? link First of all, the "Streitkräfte Basis" has nothing but absolutely NOTHING to do with the Reserves, it includes the logictic staff, for example Military Police, Support, Officers Leading staff etc. I think you though this would be the Reserve when you refered to the 50.000 Reserves. The "Civilian Staff" is actually 130.000. and not even included on the Bundeswehr site. neither are there any numbers of Reservists. The numbers of Reservists seem to shock you every time, but it is only 40 % of what we had during the Cold war (1988 it was 900.000 Reservists) The number of 400.000 will be cut to 250.000 to 2010 that will make a mobilisation volume of 505.000.
 
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RM-Nod    RE:Top Ten Armies of the World - mistake   3/7/2004 5:03:15 PM
Do you have a link to the number of German reserve (either in english or direct link please) because I was told about the number of German reserves by a few people.
 
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RM-Nod    My point still stands   3/7/2004 5:05:50 PM
Getting back to the original point the German land forces can't take on a country with nearly one million soldiers (only including proffesionals) without support from the air force, so the list still isn't correct when it comes to that. My point still also stands on the expeditionary. home defence issue.
 
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RM-Nod    RE:Top Ten Armies of the World - mistake   3/7/2004 5:16:47 PM
Forgot to ask, can you tell me how the German system of reserves work. The 400,000 figure as I understood was liable for recall troops (ie ex regulars who are still under contract to be called up) and as such not counted as reserves.
 
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fall out    RE:My point still stands   3/7/2004 6:32:56 PM
sorry RM, but saying that any land army without the support of their airforce would lose is almost like saying Britain would lose a ground war if it didnt have any weapons! Come on mate, i mean if their was a hypo war between germany and britain and british forces landed in France and both didnt have the support of their respective airforces then what do you think would happen? As good as the British army is, it isn't that good. I could say that there is no way of Britain being able to win a war with Spain over Gib if it didnt send it's subs, or it's carriers, etc. This could go on and on, but do you agree with me that it is pointless. oh btw, i was under the impression that India's army was mostly consription which would rule them out of being professional. Regards, Fall Out :)
 
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