This aside I shall never forgive France for 2003.  Once your figure out the US is going anyway making it harder just so Chirac can score some political fantasy points is unforgivable and one can only hope he dies soon and in agony. 

Okay, let's all calm down.

 

Herald: Yes you're right of course the US could stop France a la suez if they chose to do anything in Brazil. And yes french nuclear retaliation would be a big mistake, even if that's technically what the French nulcear doctrine would call for in that situation.

That is not what the doctrine does. It just will lead to national extermination as FS describes it.  Its actually a bargaining chip.

But why are you criticising FS for maintaing that his country would stand up to the US? Of course in reality they wouldn't. But isn't there something called national pride and self-respect? I just think it's a bit mean to constantly remind FS that the US is ten times stronger. Yes he's being irrational- but isn't their something about patriotism that is inherently deeply irrational, that leads vastly outnumbered and outgunned people to victory in good causes- such as at Thermopalaye or in your nation's revolution? The flip side is that it leads people to declare irrational things in forums. Other than that he's a fairly reasonable guy.

 Not when it comes to war. Emotion has no place in war. Effectiveness in a defensive and necessary war is the only criteria.

Carry on winning the tech and numbers argument where you excel- but maybe lay off being nasty about his country's weaknesses next to yours just because you can? It's a bit harsh- it's his country, he's a patriot- so he's stuck with it. Seems nasty to victimise him for that- he's pro-US for crissakes. When you say to a guy "we can own you if you step out of line" what does he do, just take that? I think your'e accidently crossing a line that threatens manhood and patriotism.

I am not hammering his nation. I hammer him because its fools like him who get people killed and start wars because they are too ignorant to understand real parameters and limits. Do you think that France is alone in this (Franco-Prussian war, World war I World War II, Vietnam, Algeria)? America has VIETNAM and IRAQ....maybe AFGHANISTAN..

I think FS's pride is driving him to say we'd respond with "x" because that's what the doctrine says and that's what national pride demands. I would bet a hundered quid that's not what he wants to do, and probably very uncomfortable and feels a little silly saying it. In reality it's a silly scenario and both nations are close allies that have benefited and awful lot from one another.

Its his stupid scenario and his stupid assertions. He has to live with the consequences of his mistakes, not me..

Why not just ignore it and move on. You really think it's fair to trample on a man's pride, on his respect for his country- just because you're stronger and you can? Keep the debate to tech and MN versus whoever on an imaginary island with no monroe doctrine in place. Then you can have a proper debate- which you'll probably win- that will enrich people with knowledge, not just upset them.

A man should not let pride interfere with objectivity. Do you see me upset to admit that the American space program (NASA) is a JOKE while Arianespace is well run?

Give the poor guy a break. He's what passes for a decent poster these days, will accept some rational arguments, and the alternative is Le Zookeeper. I know you don't mean to Herald, and you have code of objectivity which if their where more people here on your level would work. But when you're a big fish in a little pond, you tend to scare people away. We need non US or UK posters here desperately- otherwise it'll get stale. Keep a away the Russian and PRC trolls, sure. But new ideas- and good, honest debates where people learn new things- is the only point this forum has as far as I can see.

 

Mercy? 

its the UK anyone in any doubt please read up op TELIC/GRANBY/CORPORATE. Any internet fanboy grandstanding is just that until we SEE what they could do.I personally do not believe (like Herald) that france has the logistics to pull anything of this scale off. And as far as the Brazil scenario goes theres no way ANYONE would go nuclear and would play out much like the falklands except the french would lose...providing they didnt have help from anyone else in Europe in my opinion.

Here Brasilian Air force:

The FAB operates 743 aircraft, including 218 main combat aircraft and 96 helicopters.^[12]... 479 of the force's aircraft, comprising

 

So the only potent air defense fighter of Brasil is a squadron of ex French second hand M2000 we have designed and know perfectly, including how to jam its radar.

A French carrier with 3 Rafale squadron and E2C would establish complete air superiority in a 1500 km radius spot i.e all north of Brasil. Currently in July 2009 we have already 27 Rafale M in holding including 7 Rafale F3 (and 55 for Armée de l'air)

Without air superiority it is not possible to win or prevent a landing.

Moreover, France with french Antilla has possibility to base an hundred fighter planes and a squadron of air refueler to support them and they can reach easily as well Guian (1500 km away only) or northern coast of Brasil including Fernando de Noronha island.

French fighters in Martinique (french Antillas) with air refueling can even reach Brasilia deep inside Brasil .

The true is that France can today get easily absolute air superiority over Brasil, and invade it.

Same for any country of south america, or Africa.

&nb