No overseas bases? really? I imagine this would have come as quite a surprise to the good residents of Cam Ranh Bay in Vietnam.

 

The whole premise of this thread is beyond pathetic. The ability to beat up on relatively unarmed 3rd world countries has long since ceased being a source of pride to civilized nations. I guess some still long for the days of Vichy & Empire. Everyone else moved on long ago. 

 

Like Halsey, FS  is full of BULL. The French are a coast defense Navy with five boomers, no true naval airpower, the ability to land maybe 20OO marines and no ability to sustain them at all. The Russians still are able to tie US in knots in our own battlespace with their power projection assets. 

Seapower is seapower (presence). The Russians have it, the British have it, (can sustain a blue water fleet) The French don't.

 

Herald

 

 

 

Here are the rumors, Rafale for Nuclear sub technology, Laser ring gyro already sold, aircraft carrier technology with France & Italy. Russia to ready to sell Typhoon class ballistic missile sub tech to India, Akula 2 already sold, Gorskov by 2012-15. Though France is #2 its  small #2 the next #2 is India for sure with 3 aircraft carrier groups over 40 submarines, Airbus air to air refuel with SU30MKI, base rights worldwide a huge merchant marine pool, huge modern airforce pilot pool-- and now a US-INdia agreement, Lockheed transports, Ilyushin transports, New US Orion type sea surveillance 737 experience in snow, jungle, desert, cities. No chance for France or UK or Russia or China for #2 spot as INdia has the manpower and access to technology from every country except China & North Korea. I do not know what India would do with it but if you read some of the naval plans they are very very big, more than what I write.

HtJ, amusing specimen as always.

Now I await this poster's incoherent reply.

 

Bored as I work, so I poke hum with a stick to see what he will do..........

 

Herald

 

You may not like to hear it, but a few dozen Bears and Backfires, and short squadron of Akulas with theoir EW weapon loadouts and presence still mean a lot more in the global naval scheme of things than the "mighty French Marine"

I believe FS was answering another poster's (usajoe ?) qustion "what could France do if Brazil invaded French Guyana".

Now if you say that, in the (very hypothetical, given the good relations between France and Brazil) face of a Brazilian invasion of a sovereign French territory... and one that's of strategic importance not only to France but to Europe (space port) then the USA would actively help Brazil fight off a French expeditionary group ?

I suppose they might, if the French were clearly the agressors ("hey, we're bored, let's invade Brazil just for shit and giggles !") but in the (barely more likely) scenario FS was talking about... no. Lest America be viewed clarly as an enemy of Europe (and we're delving even further in Alien Space Bats land...)

And it's rather funny too how FS is pressed by some to justify how France could support operations in this scenario but they're not asking the same about the would-be invader (be it Brazil or Venezuela).

Russia does NOT have "presence"-globally,  It can't project coherent Task Unit and maintain them, globally.  Neither can the PRC or the Indians.  Britain, France, and the US can....Because France has a CVBG and Britain does not, she's second.

 

Sure CdG wouldn't last long against the Kola Peninsula or Vladivostok...and FS is silly to think it could.  And it wouldn't last long in the Taiwan Strait...but against the Russians at sea, or the PLAN at sea, or most other navies La France wins. 

 

Why is this so hard to admit?  They have a small but true global reach, a carrier, escorts, SSN's, UnRep, and an ARG.  And that's far more than Russia or the PLAN or the Indians, or the Brazilians, or the Italians can do.  The CdG, when it works, puts the MN in a different league than any other fleet, save the USN.  AEW a/c provide the C4I advantage and the Rafale provides the AAW and ASuW, and Strike Warfare capacity that Harrier Carriers lack.  No one else's fleet, save the USN can face the MN and win, at sea.  The Rafale sees to that, and it's mobile base is the key to that power.

 

Britain can't deliver the COMBINED power that the Marine National can, again until and IF the CVF comes on-line.  For that matter the USN has trouble delivering much more than 1,000-2,000 Marines via amphibious operations...Right now contingency operations are based on a Marine BATTALION-sized unit securing the immediate objective and then paratroopers and/or commercially delivered follow-on troops supplementing the ARG.  It would be a major undertaking to organize and land a MEB. 

 

France is one level down, it might be a major undertaking to organize and land the Battalion-sized unit, but it could and IF the wind was right could follow up with Para's and troops from the FAR (assuming the acronym hasn't changed).  Sound familiar, it should it the US plan, in miniature.  France could have undertaken Operation Corporate much more easily than the RN, the Foch and Clemenceau saw to that, just as the CdG-when it works- gives France a greater capacity TODAY.

 

Bottom-Line: FS can be full of Bull-Sh*the and STILL be right...and he is.  France is Number Two on the sustained, conventional Presence and Power Projection list.

 No overseas bases? really? I imagine this would have come as quite a surprise to the good residents of Cam Ranh Bay in Vietnam.

I should have said no national oversea bases.

Cam Ranh Bay (or Yemen at this time) was on a foreign territory so dependant of the will of local gouvernement to be used offensively ; moreover it was restricted to be a navy facility.

Same problem than for us our bases in Djibouti or Dakar or UAE.

However with our islands as French territory we can use them for navy, air force, or logistic base for our army stockpile without any demand from a foreign state

For exemple we can bring a whole army corps in Mayotte, stockpile spares and ammunitions and extend air facilties to 3 air base prior an invasion of a country of east africa.Or in new caledonia to support a war in south Asia.

 

 

 

To JFKY

 

French have much more capability to sustain a battle group than Russians.

Our carrier is nuclear (no need of fuel for propulsion which save equivalent of 2 oilers) and SSN have a global reach as well

And we have 4 fleet oilers plus several other auxiliary ships (some in reserve).

Moreover having french territory in all ocean allow us to stockpile there fuel, ammunitions, spares etc...by civilian means.

In case of battle group operations in Indian Ocean,  french fleet oilers has just to come back to Djibouti, Mayotte or la Réunion in Indian Ocean to refuel and come back to battle group to refuel it. They are never more than to 3000 miles to a French ground base in Atlantic, Mediterranean sea or Indian Ocean or in south Asia.

4 fleet oilers for just refuel CdG in kerosen and its accompanying frigate, is more than enough for unlimited operations.

 

India has currently big plan to expand its naval power in Indian ocean.They are speaking to a 100 ship navy with 3 carriers.

However their carrier will be STOBAR air defense carriers with Mig 29 so little capability in long range with huge load and not AEW.

India has access to good tech but not the last one since neither France nor Russia will give their best tech in ECM, ECCM or sonar or nuclear silencing tech.

For now India has only one nuclear sub in trial.

 

How much time to have 3 operational carriers and 10 top tech operational nuclear subs with experienced crew including some SSBN?

You are dreaming if you think it would be for 2020 and probably France will have a second CATOBAR carrier before.

In 2023 India may have those capabilities but France would have probably 2 CATOBAR carriers, 6 brand new SSN, and 11 more modern frigates delivered.

I do not see India to reach a similar capability than France before 2025.

And India and France are allies.