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Subject: France global reach is world second now
french stratege    8/8/2009 4:54:41 AM
US readers may have difficulties to consider that but only France has a 100% independant global reach after USA.And far below USA, granted.
 
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french stratege       8/11/2009 7:48:16 AM
LOL Herald
Brasilian navy has conventional SSK, not SSN.
A SSK has very few ability in blue sea vs a carrier.
And France has 6 SSN and 28 Atlantic ASW aircraft to base in Antillas.Plus CdG ASW escort.
 
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french stratege       8/11/2009 8:07:07 AM
Improved gift from FS
 

 

Strategic level

France

UK

Russia

Space assets

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french stratege       8/11/2009 8:09:25 AM
Typo correction
 

 

Strategic level

France

UK

Russia

Space assets

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french stratege       8/11/2009 8:15:49 AM
Comment
 I assume a zero SSBN capability for UK vs USA since I think that USA did not give to UK Trident II missile and firecontrol embedded software, and so USA implemented restriction of use by software against USA territories.
Moreover UK share their SSBN deployment areas with USA unless France.
So USA can chase UK subs more easily and can pressure UK in case of will of independant use (at least on maintenance)
 
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Herald12345       8/11/2009 8:18:08 AM

LOL Herald

Brasilian navy has conventional SSK, not SSN.
 
More dangerous.  They can be very quiet.

A SSK has very few ability in blue sea vs a carrier.
 
Is that so? How many exercises have you seen end  with a trophy picture published of a CV periscope shot? Have you also read the Argentine submariners' accounts of their attempts to deal with the British? Defective torpedoes plagued them.

And France has 6 SSN and 28 Atlantic ASW aircraft to base in Antillas.Plus CdG ASW escort.
 
The British (and WE) are far better than you are at ASW , and they (and WE) are nervous about how poorly they (and WE) did (do) sub hunting D/Es.  
 
You also haven't won a naval war  in two hundred years..
 
That has to hurt.
Soirce....
 
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french stratege       8/11/2009 8:23:16 AM
You also haven't won a naval war  in two hundred years..
 No
Destruction of Chinese navy (see Amiral Courbet 1885)
Destruction of Thai navy (1941) or Egyptian (1956) (minor operations)
WW1 operations
 
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Herald12345    Why do you need to correct a chart?   8/11/2009 8:31:34 AM

Typo correction

 


 















Strategic level



France



UK



Russia



Space assets



Yes in national holding


100% independent


High resolution reco, ESM, telecom



Only telecom in national holding


US dependant for reco


 
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Herald12345    Why do you need to lie?   8/11/2009 8:38:48 AM

You also haven't won a naval war  in two hundred years..



 No

Destruction of Chinese navy (see Amiral Courbet 1885)
 
Japan.

Destruction of Thai navy (1941) or Egyptian (1956) (minor operations)
 
Japan again. You lost WW II and had to be rescued.. Israel and the RN cleared out the Egyptians. You just cut holes in the water. 

WW1 operations
 
Royal Navy. You couldn't even pull your weight in the Mediterranean. It was the Italians who handled the Austrians and you failed at Gallipoli. 

Why do you lie?
 
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JFKY    Herald   8/11/2009 8:44:51 AM
You may have read too much Herman Kahn.  I'm not sure "escalation ladders" really work...Nuclear Deterrence works at very low levels.  The US had UNDISPUTED Strategic nuclear dominance, and theatre nuclear dominance during the Cuban Missile Crisis and STILL was concerned about the loss of coastal cities, from nuclear torpedo strikes....
 
France's two SSBN's pretty much guarantee France's ability to resist nuclear blackmail.  I doubt the US or Russia or any nation is willing to lose their equivalent of New York, Chicago, Boston and Atlanta for anything less than national survival.  And France can deliver that kind of destruction.  That's really all nuclear weapons are good for, threatening a Holocaust in response to a Holocaust...they are extremely hard to use otherwise.
 
But again this is less about the Force de Frappe and Nuclear Deterrence and more about France's ability to intervene in a sustained, conventional manner on a global scale.  And I think it is still safe to say that France has more capacity than the UK and is second only to the US.  The CdG may not be all that, but it's more than most nations possess.
 
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Herald12345    Kahn is still the bible.   8/11/2009 8:49:34 AM

You may have read too much Herman Kahn.  I'm not sure "escalation ladders" really work...Nuclear Deterrence works at very low levels.  The US had UNDISPUTED Strategic nuclear dominance, and theatre nuclear dominance during the Cuban Missile Crisis and STILL was concerned about the loss of coastal cities, from nuclear torpedo strikes....

 

France's two SSBN's pretty much guarantee France's ability to resist nuclear blackmail.  I doubt the US or Russia or any nation is willing to lose their equivalent of New York, Chicago, Boston and Atlanta for anything less than national survival.  And France can deliver that kind of destruction.  That's really all nuclear weapons are good for, threatening a Holocaust in response to a Holocaust...they are extremely hard to use otherwise.

 

But again this is less about the Force de Frappe and Nuclear Deterrence and more about France's ability to intervene in a sustained, conventional manner on a global scale.  And I think it is still safe to say that France has more capacity than the UK and is second only to the US.  The CdG may not be all that, but it's more than most nations possess.


We have two real world cases where (Arab Israeli War and India Pakistan War in the early seventies)  his theories were put to the test. We won one test and lost one test. Kissinger never was any good as a negotiator. 
 
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