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Subject: Basic map reading and land nav skills
ArtyEngineer    3/18/2009 8:40:51 PM
All, I just spent a good hour this afternoon teaching basic map reading and land nav skills to a bunch of guys who "REALLY" should know this stuff like the back of their hands!!!! Is the prevelance of GPS and other navigational aids totaly diminishing our ability to go back to basics when the need arises. These guys had no idea how to take the 8 digit MGRS format grid they were provided and put it into the full 13 digit UTM format!!!! I was very very disturbed by this!!!!
 
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gf0012-aust       3/19/2009 3:33:09 AM
well, I have to confess that I am "geographically and location autisitic".

I've tried WAC charts and could only get to where I was going by using GPS and a Marine compass (because marine compasses are the opposite of land compasses in that your true direction faces you rather than points "to" where you are heading.

I need a dog, a GPS, marine compass, EPIRB and a sat phone if I want to make sure that I won't get lost forever. :) 
 
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ArtyEngineer    gf   3/19/2009 5:47:31 PM

Thats OK gf, you are not trying to hit a target 15 or so miles away and your ability to do so is heavily dependant upon your ability to accurately determine your own location!!!!! ;)

 
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DarthAmerica       3/20/2009 10:52:37 AM

Thats OK gf, you are not trying to hit a target 15 or so miles away and your ability to do so is heavily dependant upon your ability to accurately determine your own location!!!!! ;)


It's a very perishable skill indeed. When I was a tanker, we didn't have things like FBCB2 and a plugger was a luxury. I still have my old "battleboards" which for those who don't know is a map laminated in plexiglass. But now, it's all electronics. IN a way AE, I certainly understand where you are coming from. But I try to think of it like this. Maps, Compass, Protractor, ranger beads and all that are just tools like a GPS. What if you lose your map? What if you tear it? What if you break your compass doing IMT? It can happen. So in a sense, with GPS technology being so common, its not necessarily a weakness anymore to not be as good with old methods if we are talking individual land nav skills. I do realize however that people involved with IDF need to have quite a bit better understanding though. I was recently teaching an 11B class and soe of the guys wanted to know why when calling for fire using the polar method direction and distance to tgt were important. Yikes!!!

 
-DA
 
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strat-T21C    The "GPS" curse!   3/20/2009 11:31:23 AM




Thats OK gf, you are not trying to hit a target 15 or so miles away and your ability to do so is heavily dependant upon your ability to accurately determine your own location!!!!! ;)





It's a very perishable skill indeed. When I was a tanker, we didn't have things like FBCB2 and a plugger was a luxury. I still have my old "battleboards" which for those who don't know is a map laminated in plexiglass. But now, it's all electronics. IN a way AE, I certainly understand where you are coming from. But I try to think of it like this. Maps, Compass, Protractor, ranger beads and all that are just tools like a GPS. What if you lose your map? What if you tear it? What if you break your compass doing IMT? It can happen. So in a sense, with GPS technology being so common, its not necessarily a weakness anymore to not be as good with old methods if we are talking individual land nav skills. I do realize however that people involved with IDF need to have quite a bit better understanding though. I was recently teaching an 11B class and soe of the guys wanted to know why when calling for fire using the polar method direction and distance to tgt were important. Yikes!!!




 

-DA
The basic skills DO erode, in this I totally agree with DA. In Cdn battle schools, where I am currently posted to as a instructor, the gps has been removed from the training plan in favor of more map/compass work. This is essensial to a young soldier with little tactical experiance, the gps is simple and, as said before here, an aid to get the job done. 

 
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RockyMTNClimber    Map reading and compass navigation   3/20/2009 12:05:22 PM
These skills should be taught in elementary school and reinforced later in HS & Middle school, science and geography classes. I've helped in SARs where people walk away from parking lot and get lost within the sound of a highway. Map reading and compass skills would give people an fundamental understanding of topography and geography. Its a fundamental skill of life. GF, shame on you! I know you are a pilot. You must learn to love the map and the compass. They are your friends.
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
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FJV       3/20/2009 5:49:34 PM
Discussion reminds me of my old math teacher's remark about calculators (which I up to a point agreed with).
 

 
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gf0012-aust       3/21/2009 5:09:58 AM
GF, shame on you! I know you are a pilot. You must learn to love the map and the compass. They are your friends.

Fortunately for others, I'm not a pilot.  Although I am a member of AOPA. (Hows that for throwing a curve ball!) 

My exposure to WAC charts is because they're useful for plotting paths when testing for acoustic anomalies in ballistic detection systems.  That was a previous life about 9 years ago.

I know my limitations, and making planes take off via my ability, hand eye co-ord etc... is way beyond my skillset. ;) 

 
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gf0012-aust       3/21/2009 5:12:31 AM

Discussion reminds me of my old math teacher's remark about calculators (which I up to a point agreed with).

 I'm from that generation that used slide rules.  I remember when calculators came in and we all thought that the next generation would be dumb as an ox due to "cheating" :)

Slide rules are almost a rite of passage... 





 
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hardcharger    It's all relevant   3/24/2009 7:43:07 PM






Discussion reminds me of my old math teacher's remark about calculators (which I up to a point agreed with).



 I'm from that generation that used slide rules.  I remember when calculators came in and we all thought that the next generation would be dumb as an ox due to "cheating" :)




Slide rules are almost a rite of passage... 














The other day I was in a grocery store with my wife when the power went out. The cashiers had to use calculators which worked fine until it came to doolling out the correct change. Moral of the story, we need to get our youth back to basics, someday we'll be up against a foe that will figure out how to Jam GPS or just trash the sattelites all together.
 
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gf0012-aust       3/24/2009 11:23:40 PM
remember when nuke bomber crews carried sextants......

fieldcraft is always a perishable skill that should never be ignored. 

you can bet  the chinese are training for a satcomm compromised war

 
 
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