The Strategypage is a comprehensive summary of military news and affairs.
 News As History - August 29, 2008

Advertisement


Advertisement



New Strategy - Wargames at Discount Prices
1.Squad Battles: Winter War
2.Silent War
3.Manoeuvre
4.Gallic Wars
5.Fast Action Battle: The Bulge

100+ Computer and Board games all with free shipping.
 
 
 

Online Giving

Utah SEO Firm

Xango

Smiley Gifts for Babies

Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use
Armed Forces of the World Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: What If - Brereton Bombs Formosa
bigfella    3/21/2008 1:54:17 AM
This is one of those little things that has always intrigued me. As we seem to have a couple of folk hereabouts well read on the Pacific War I thought I might get you to put on your thinking caps a bit & consider the following:

Lets imagine for a moment that after Pearl is hit MacArthur actually behaves like the great General history would tell us he is. Lets imagine that he lets Brereton launch the B-17 strike on Formosa.

From what I have read there was a good chance to catch a much of the Japanese attack force on the ground, fuelled up & fully loaded for attack.

Had this attack taken place would it have made any significant difference to the course of the Pacific War? Could America have evened the odds in the air enough that it would have significantly slowed the invasion of the Philippines? (esp. by hitting the invasion fleet). Would Japanese advances into the NEI & toward PNG & the Solomons have been slowed much? Might this have encouraged the US government into sending reinforcements to the Philippines?

OR, would this just be seen as a gallant but doomed attempt to slow an enemy who had a strategic advantage too large to be overcome in the short term?
 
Quote    Reply
 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Sort in Reverse Order Posted

Herald12345       3/21/2008 2:49:26 AM

This is one of those little things that has always intrigued me. As we seem to have a couple of folk hereabouts well read on the Pacific War I thought I might get you to put on your thinking caps a bit & consider the following:

Lets imagine for a moment that after Pearl is hit MacArthur actually behaves like the great General history would tell us he is. Lets imagine that he lets Brereton launch the B-17 strike on Formosa.

From what I have read there was a good chance to catch a much of the Japanese attack force on the ground, fuelled up & fully loaded for attack.

Had this attack taken place would it have made any significant difference to the course of the Pacific War? Could America have evened the odds in the air enough that it would have significantly slowed the invasion of the Philippines? (esp. by hitting the invasion fleet). Would Japanese advances into the NEI & toward PNG & the Solomons have been slowed much? Might this have encouraged the US government into sending reinforcements to the Philippines?

OR, would this just be seen as a gallant but doomed attempt to slow an enemy who had a strategic advantage too large to be overcome in the short term?
1. Any effort to attack immediately as soon as possible would have been better than being caught on the ground. Brereton was right, Sutherland was wrong, and MacArthur was a damned fool not to listen to his USAAF commander when he argued this case.
2. The only chance Brereton had was counter-air. If he had  been able to disrupt the 450 fogbound [200 of them bombers] or so Japanese aircraft massed in their half dozen Formosa airfields with his 35 B-17s he might have had a chance for a few days to delay the inevitable  loss of the air over  the Philippines. Anti-shipping strike in those days  was not a USAAF skill, bombing enemy airfields was.
3. I'm not sure that Homma would attempt the Lingayen Gulf landings until the 11th Air Fleet wiped Brereton out.

To be blunt, there wasn't much Brereton could actually do. The better chance would have been if the USN had better submarine training and better torpedoes. That might have made some major difference; if the 29 submarines Thomas Hart commanded actually had effective commanders and weapons to attack the invasion convoys as they massed off Lingayen.. But c'est la vie. I won't pull any punches here. The US [mainly Filipino Territorials and US Army regulars under Wainwright] conducted a very fierce defense in spite of its incompetent senior commanders, not because of them.

I don't fault Brereton that much. He still should have told Mac [and Sutherland] to go to hell like Kenney later did and taken the career risk to attack. What did he have to lose besides what he would lose, if he delayed?

Herald


 
Quote    Reply

JFKY       3/21/2008 9:51:04 AM
I don't think 35 B-17's are going to change the outcome...especially if the Japanese are fog-bound.  If that means their airfields are covered in fog, then the B-17's don't hit them....It was not until 1943/44 that Radar bombing could allow for night or inclement weather bombing.  The American aircraft would have just salvoed their weapons on mostly empty fields, only an opinion but the USAAF wasn't a precision instrument in 1941.  It really wasn't one in 1945, either truth to tell.
 
Quote    Reply

RockyMTNClimber    Mr. Mac, Bereton on the phone sir.......   3/21/2008 1:05:57 PM
 
" Good morning General, I just wanted to let you know the strike was successful. We caught many enemy aircraft on the field and suprised the enemy's defensive force; very few losses."  "What attack?" "  " Sir, I left that memo in your mail box yesterday......."

(better to beg forgiveness than ask permission...)
 
It'd never happen with a professional career officer but what the hell, it would have been a cool footnote in history.
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
Quote    Reply

YelliChink       3/21/2008 3:36:21 PM
Yes, Taiwan was bombed and raided numerous times during the last phase of the war by the USAAF and USN. Actually, a whole campaign was launched to destroy IJA and IJN air power on Taiwan. Taipei City was seriously damaged by air raid in May, 1945.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Taipei

 
Quote    Reply

YelliChink       3/21/2008 4:13:36 PM
OK, I didn't understand the whole thing and made myself look like a fool.

Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and the Philippines almost at the same time. There wasn't enough time to load and prepare an air assault, and there weren't enough fighter cover to do this. Japanese were also aware of possible counterattack.

 
Quote    Reply

StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2008StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy