It would help you immensely before you comment on a subject about which you know NOTHING.

 

Herald

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One can argue forever about who started the current conflict (Israel attacked, but Hamas fired rockets, but Israel blockaded, but Hamas sent suicide bombers in, but Israel stole the land, but the British etc...) and ultimately it accomplishes nothing. The real concern is not whether Israel can defeat Hamas millitarily, but how they can move towards a real solution of the problem. If every Hamas militant was abducted by aliens tomorrow, it would still leave over a million people in Gaza reliant on international aid, with no economy, and with no real hope for building one and with every incentive to lash out violently. Until these underlying issues are addressed, this currenty conflict will just be another tit-for-tat battle which accomplishes nothing.

Monaco and Singapore , both resourceless, built peaceful economies. Your argument flies in the face of reality.

 

All it takes is Human WILL and DESIRE to prosper in peace.

 

The Syrian land thieve descendants deserve what they get. They chose it.

 

Herald

 

One can argue forever about who started the current conflict (Israel attacked, but Hamas fired rockets, but Israel blockaded, but Hamas sent suicide bombers in, but Israel stole the land, but the British etc...) and ultimately it accomplishes nothing. The real concern is not whether Israel can defeat Hamas millitarily, but how they can move towards a real solution of the problem. If every Hamas militant was abducted by aliens tomorrow, it would still leave over a million people in Gaza reliant on international aid, with no economy, and with no real hope for building one and with every incentive to lash out violently. Until these underlying issues are addressed, this currenty conflict will just be another tit-for-tat battle which accomplishes nothing.

Since the Hamas/Hezbollah and their supporters in Iran/Syria/Saudi Arabia are committed to maintaining the conflict at all cost the war will continue, no matter what Israel does, until Israel is dead or Israel exterminates it's enemy. The statement above drips of moral equivalence as if Israel would just leave the Gaza or cease fire or negotiate this would all just go away. Israel has left the Gaza, has honored cease fires, and has attempted to negotiate land for peace. The author of the above statement has simply chosen to forget these historical facts for the sake of his/her political ignroance.

 

Israel has a right of self defense and she is entirely justified in using that right to kill her enemies.

 

Check Six

 

Rocky 

Rocky,

 

  I agree with your statement. I was not trying to say that there is no moral culpability. Anyone who uses the tactics that Hamas has been employing (both in their attacks on Israel and in how they manage their own economy) are clearly immoral. My point was that pointing fingers doesn't really address the root problem. Israel will succed in killing many Hamas, but that still won't solve anything in 3, 5, or 50 years.

 

 

I agree Israel has a right and duty to defend itself, but it should also be looking for a more lasting peace. 

In contract law, you need a meeting of the minds in order to successfully negotiate and conclude a contract. No different here. Where does Israel find that mind on the Pali side  to successfully negotiate with?  Arafat was given the whole store, and still declared war.

 

 

swhitebull - it takes two to tango, and the only thing that Hamas wants is the death of all Israelis. No meeting of the minds there, short of annihilation and starting with the survivors. Shock and awe is what it will take. Most conflicts in the history of the world have been resolved thru the use of force, followed by negotiations than by talk-talk alone. This will be no different.

Herald,

 

  I don't think Monaco or Singapore are good comparisons. Monaco has resources - great climate,  beautiful beaches, and easy transport to/from Europe. Thus, they have an excellent tourist economy. Although Gaza has a good climate, they probably won't be a tourist destination for some time. Singapore has a location which lends itself to becoming a trade hub and a well educated population to draw on. Also, neither Monaco or Singapore had a blockade around them preventing external trade.  Palestine will not be able to build an economy until the current stalemate is broken.

 

  Again, my point is not that  Hamas is the "good guy" and Israel the bad, or that Israel is not justified in protecting its citizens, or even that Israel is going about the invasion in a disproportionate. My point is that I don't see Israel's actions leading to a long term solution. At best it is a short term necessity, at worst it will play into the hands of Hamas in public opinion.

 

   Of course, I'm not claiming to have a solution, but I don't think this current action will move us towards one. 

 

Your thoughts?

I agree Israel has a right and duty to defend itself, but it should also be looking for a more lasting peace. 

 

In making this statement you ignore the fact that Israel has diligently worked to find a peaceful solution. There is no reasonable Palestinian argument here.  The Palestinians broke the cease fire and they are predictably being pummeled for that. Don't make excuses or in any way try to give the Palestinians or their terrorist comrades in Hamas/Hezbollah any level of moral equivalence, what-so-ever.  They simply don't deserve it.

 

You should be saying that you wish the Palestinians would stop killing Israelis.

 

Check Six

 

Rocky

Rocky,

 

  I agree that Israel has tried to find a peaceful solution, but that it has not worked. However, Israel needs to continue trying to search for a long-term peaceful solution. Living with a belligerent, improverished, neighbor who wants to kill you is simply not a good long-term idea. My only concern is that this current conflict will not lead to a long term soluiton, and may impair it, so that in the long term more Israelis and more Palistinians will die.

 

And again, I am not trying to say that the Hamas-run government of Gaza does not deserve to be pummeled - they clearly do.  I certainly wish that Palestinians would stop killing Israelis.  I fervently hope that the Israeli attack will remove Hamas and that a democratic, peace-seeking, intelligent government will arise in Palestine who will negotiate in good faith to find an equitable solution. But I do not think this will be the case. I think that Israel will damage Hamas, the Palestinians will become more emibttered, and a new generation of angry Gazans will continue to fight for another decade. I hope I am wrong.

 

In summary, Israel is morally justified in their actions, but I don't think it will achieve anything in the long term.

 

Unfortunately, there is another lost generation of Palestinians being inculcated in the Kill-da-Juice mindset endemic in the Palestinian culture. When you have a society who has total control over education, propaganda, hatred, etc as the PALIS in Hamas and Fatah have, (in violation of Oslo, btw) there is NO WAY there can be peace.

 

Remember what happened to the Hebrew people after leaving Egypt - they wandered in the desert for 40 years, and not even Moses was permitted to enter the Promised Land. This was to ensure that NONE of the older generation - who had been slaves - would bring their slave mentality to the new society that G-d had promised the Hebrews. Same thing needs to happen to the PALIs.

 

Except this time - there are other ways of achieving the die-off of the older generation. Stop spreading progandanda in the education system, teach the value of life rather than death, etc. The PALIS have a choice - seems they always make the bad ones, and suffer the consequences - whatever it takes.

 

 

swhitebull