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Subject: Lee-Enfield Lives
SYSOP    7/2/2008 5:50:43 AM
 
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YelliChink       7/2/2008 11:02:53 AM
Those are better to be No. 4 or No. 5 variants with bayonets. I hope that someday I can have one.
 
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Zad Fnark       7/2/2008 11:24:00 AM
No 4s are fairly cheap.  I got mine for about 120.00 just a few years ago.  No 5s (Jungle Carbine) used to be, but they've gone up in the last few years.  Unless you use light loads, the carbine'll inflict pain when you shoot it.
 
ZF-
 
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Mrbinga       7/2/2008 11:55:33 AM
I bought a No. 4 about a month ago at a gun show for around $200.00.  It was a little more then I wanted to spend but it was in great shape and is a terrific shooter.  I really couldn't be happier with it.
 
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onceagrunt       7/2/2008 12:48:50 PM
This will make you guys cry. I have a 1916 vintage No. 1 Mk. III, made by BSA in my gun safe. Bought it at a gun store in Anchorage, Alaska in 1973.  $30.00.  Those were the days. Of course I was only making about $600 a month as a lieutenant.
 
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JayCrawford       7/2/2008 2:54:39 PM
I collected British and Soviet military small arms in the late 80's and 90's and my six Lee-Enfields are probably my favorites (though my Martini-Henry is pretty close). For a good combination of accuracy, power, and rapidity of fire, they are probably the apotheosis of military bolt action rifles.
My personal fav is an Australian No. 1 Mk III, serial 15384 though my rarest is a 1916 No. 1 Mk III*, serial 5324 (out of 1.6 million made).
Zad Fnark seems to have had some experience with the No. 5 "jungle carbine" but let me add something about its recoil. The No. 5 was adopted when the British were still using the flat-tail Mk VII round; indeed most of the 80,000 units were built before the switch to the Mk VIII boat-tail round (which comprised nearly all post-1948 ammunition production). These two cartriges have very different recoil characteristics in the light No. 5 rifle which are not really noticeable in the heavier No. 4 rifle. Putting it simply: If you use dingy old Mk. VII rounds in your No. 5, you won't be beaten up; use Mk. VIII (or commercial variants thereof) and you may be bruised.
Now a practical application of the above.
Invite your competitors/enemies to shoot your No. 5 then say: "Ten round challenge. Worst shot group buys the beer [insert name of favorite expensive brand]. Best shot group drinks the beer. I'll even give you the bright, shiny new ammo..."
 
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Ispose    Lee Enfields   7/2/2008 3:54:40 PM
Be careful when buying a Lee Enfield. I had a Number 4 which was a great shooting then I got a Number 5 Jungle Carbine. That thing would not shoot straight no matter what load I was using. I finally slugge dthe barrel and Lo-and-behold it was rifled to .315 diameter..004 over bore. The thing would never shoot straight with factory .311 loads.
This was a fairly common problem with late WWII Enfields - sloppy quality Controls.
 
 
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momus       7/3/2008 1:01:26 AM
I don't currently have an Enfield and miss having one of these excellent rifles.  It's sad to hear that some people must own non-firing replicas or deactivated and crippled originals.  I'm looking for one of the Ishapore Enfields in .308 right now--starting to  haunt GunBroker looking for the right one.
 
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YelliChink       7/3/2008 11:06:49 AM

I don't currently have an Enfield and miss having one of these excellent rifles.  It's sad to hear that some people must own non-firing replicas or deactivated and crippled originals.  I'm looking for one of the Ishapore Enfields in .308 right now--starting to  haunt GunBroker looking for the right one.

I'm just curious. Since people who do not have FFL can't buy and sell things on GunsAmerica or GunBroker, do they need to contact local gun store or people who have FFL to conduct cross-state purchasing and NCIS?
 
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displacedjim       7/3/2008 11:27:41 AM


I'm just curious. Since people who do not have FFL can't buy and sell [firearms] on GunsAmerica or GunBroker [across state lines], do they need to contact local gun store or people who have FFL to conduct cross-state purchasing and NCIS?


Yes.

 
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buzzard       7/3/2008 12:43:20 PM

I don't currently have an Enfield and miss having one of these excellent rifles.  It's sad to hear that some people must own non-firing replicas or deactivated and crippled originals.  I'm looking for one of the Ishapore Enfields in .308 right now--starting to  haunt GunBroker looking for the right one.

I picked up one of those about a dozen years ago for $80. Nice enough rifle, though I don't shoot it much.
 
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JayCrawford       7/4/2008 12:59:07 AM

Be careful when buying a Lee Enfield. I had a Number 4 which was a great shooting then I got a Number 5 Jungle Carbine. That thing would not shoot straight no matter what load I was using. I finally slugge dthe barrel and Lo-and-behold it was rifled to .315 diameter..004 over bore. The thing would never shoot straight with factory .311 loads.

This was a fairly common problem with late WWII Enfields - sloppy quality Controls.

 


You are correct about barrel tolerances not always being perfect on wartime Enfields (though I must say that Canadiann or late-war British No. 4s are all very good in my experience). However, fine tolerance barrels were not that critical when shooting Mk VII ball ammunition because this round was loaded with a flat exposed-lead bullet whose base expanded when the lead was under pressure from the burning propellant. As a result, it would expand to engage the rifling even in a well-worn barrel.
The post-war Mk VIII ammunition with boat tail bullets was intended for optimum ballistic efficiency in late-war/post-war rifles (No. 4 Mk 1* or No. 4 Mk 2) with precise-tolerance barrels. Most commercial ammunition copies the highly efficient Mk VIII bullet...and therefore is not going to be accurate in barrels with really worn bores. However, if you can find some old Mk VII ammunition or if you can handload with a .311" diameter flat-based exposed lead core bullet, you will still get respectable accuracy out of any Lee Enfield, even those with a lot of use on their barrels.
Good fortune on getting a No. 1 or No. 4 rifle, Yellichink! As long as you remember the shooting fundamentals of keeping your trigger-hand's arm perpendicular to your body and holding the buttplate snugly against your shoulder, you will find these rifles to be pleasant shooters. They will serve you well as target and hunting rifles (though only do the latter with modern soft-point or hollow-point bullets!). But please don't bother with a No. 5 "Jungle Carbine": most of them are imitations made from cut-down No. 4s.
 And, if you ever HAD to protect the family bedrooms' area of your home with only your target/hunting rifle, you could scarcely want for a more effective rifle.
 But most of all, have fun!
 
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YelliChink       7/4/2008 1:09:52 AM

Good fortune on getting a No. 1 or No. 4 rifle, Yellichink! As long as you remember the shooting fundamentals of keeping your trigger-hand's arm perpendicular to your body and holding the buttplate snugly against your shoulder, you will find these rifles to be pleasant shooters. They will serve you well as target and hunting rifles (though only do the latter with modern soft-point or hollow-point bullets!). But please don't bother with a No. 5 "Jungle Carbine": most of them are imitations made from cut-down No. 4s.


Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think foreigners are allowed to own guns in the US.
 
And, worse,  I live in Cook County, IL.
 
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momus       7/5/2008 11:11:31 PM


I picked up one of those about a dozen years ago for $80. Nice enough rifle, though I don't shoot it much.


So, since you don't shoot it much, are you interested in selling it?
 
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smitty237    Still relevant   7/5/2008 11:48:24 PM
In many ways the Enfield SMLE is still a useful weapon, particularly in police service.  This is especially true in Third World countries, but I think the bolt action rifle could have some useful applications with Western police agencies.  The current trend in American law enforcement is to equip police cars with AR-15 type rifles, and while I am for this, given my preference I would also bring along my sixty-six year old Enfield No. 4 along with me on patrol duties.  In fact, I would rather have an AR-15 or Enfield in lieu of a shotgun, which I consider as little more that a smooth bore musket.  The West Hollywood bank robbery/shootout was a wake up call for police agencies all over the United States.  One of the best trained agencies in the nation (LAPD) was paralyzed by two assholes armed with AK-47s and G-3 rifles.  As a result, many agencies started putting AR-15s, Mini-14s, and G-36s in their patrol cars so their officers could engage suspects equipped with body armor.  I would also submit that an LAPD officer armed with a large calibre rifle, such as an M-1 Garand, Enfield, Mauser, or Mosin-Nagant, et al., could have ended the engagement once and for all at a much farther distance than any AR-15 type rifle could have. 
 
If I were allowed to carry a full powered cartridge rifle I would choose an M-14 (or M-1 Garand), FAL, or G-3 since I am a big advocate of a rapid follow up shot.  Unfortunately those rifles are expensive, so I would next dust off the Enfield in my gun safe and put it in my patrol car.  In my opinion the Enfield reflects the direction that bolt actions might have taken had efficient semi-auto rifles not developed in the 1930's and 40's.  The Enfield had a detachable ten round magazine, but this might have evolved into a system that used disposable magazines of twenty rounds or more.  Regardless, the Enfield rifle is an excellent system that deserves to live just a little while longer. 
 
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Horsesoldier       7/7/2008 12:59:17 AM



Good fortune on getting a No. 1 or No. 4 rifle, Yellichink! As long as you remember the shooting fundamentals of keeping your trigger-hand's arm perpendicular to your body and holding the buttplate snugly against your shoulder, you will find these rifles to be pleasant shooters. They will serve you well as target and hunting rifles (though only do the latter with modern soft-point or hollow-point bullets!). But please don't bother with a No. 5 "Jungle Carbine": most of them are imitations made from cut-down No. 4s.






Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think foreigners are allowed to own guns in the US.

 

And, worse,  I live in Cook County, IL.




You can under federal laws, if I'm not mistaken (there is, at any rate, a blank on the federal paperwork to list your green card # or whatever), but state or local laws may differ or be more restrictive.  (Especially where you currently live . . .)
 
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