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Subject: M4 in the harsh spotlight, again
Something Meatier    4/20/2008 11:01:21 PM
Colt's grip on military rifle criticized Associated Press, 4/20/08 HARTFORD, Conn. - No weapon is more important to tens of thousands of U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan than the carbine rifle. And for well over a decade, the military has relied on one company, Colt Defense of Hartford, Conn., to make the M4s they trust with their lives. Now, as Congress considers spending millions more on the guns, this exclusive arrangement is being criticized as a bad deal for American forces as well as taxpayers, according to interviews and research conducted by The Associated Press. "What we have is a fat contractor in Colt who's gotten very rich off our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan," says Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla. The M4, which can fire at a rate of 700 to 950 bullets a minute, is a shorter and lighter version of the company's M16 rifle first used 40 years ago during the Vietnam War. It normally carries a 30-round magazine. At about $1,500 apiece, the M4 is overpriced, according to Coburn. It jams too often in sandy environments like Iraq, he adds, and requires far more maintenance than more durable carbines. "And if you tend to have the problem at the wrong time, you're putting your life on the line," says Coburn, who began examining the M4's performance last year after receiving complaints from soldiers. "The fact is, the American GI today doesn't have the best weapon. And they ought to." U.S. military officials don't agree. They call the M4 an excellent carbine. When the time comes to replace the M4, they want a combat rifle that is leaps and bounds beyond what's currently available. "There's not a weapon out there that's significantly better than the M4," says Col. Robert Radcliffe, director of combat developments at the Army Infantry Center in Fort Benning, Ga. "To replace it with something that has essentially the same capabilities as we have today doesn't make good sense." Colt's exclusive production agreement ends in June 2009. At that point, the Army, in its role as the military's principal buyer of firearms, may have other gunmakers compete along with Colt for continued M4 production. Or, it might begin looking for a totally new weapon. "We haven't made up our mind yet," Radcliffe says. William Keys, Colt's chief executive officer, says the M4 gets impressive reviews from the battlefield. And he worries that bashing the carbine will undermine the confidence the troops have in it. "The guy killing the enemy with this gun loves it," says Keys, a former Marine Corps general who was awarded the Navy Cross for battlefield valor in Vietnam. "I'm not going to stand here and disparage the senator, but I think he's wrong." In 2006, a non-profit research group surveyed 2,600 soldiers who had served in Iraq and Afghanistan and found 89 percent were satisfied with the M4. While Colt and the Army have trumpeted that finding, detractors say the survey also revealed that 19 percent of these soldiers had their weapon jam during a firefight. And the relationship between the Army and Colt has been frosty at times. Concerned over the steadily rising cost of the M4, the Army forced Colt to lower its prices two years ago by threatening to buy rifles from another supplier. Prior to the warning, Colt "had not demonstrated any incentive to consider a price reduction," then-Maj. Gen. Jeffrey Sorenson, an Army acquisition official, wrote in a November 2006 report. Coburn is the M4's harshest and most vocal critic. But his concern is shared by others, who point to the "SCAR," made by Belgian armorer FN Herstal, and the HK416, produced by Germany's Heckler & Koch, as possible contenders. Both weapons cost about the same as the M4, their manufacturers say. The SCAR is being purchased by U.S. special operations forces, who have their own acquisition budget and the latitude to buy gear the other military branches can't. Or won't. "All I know is, we're not having the competition, and the technology that is out there is not in the hands of our troops," says Jack Keane, a former Army general who pushed unsuccessfully for an M4 replacement before retiring four years ago. The dispute over the M4 has been overshadowed by larger but not necessarily more important concerns. When the public's attention is focused on the annual defense budget, it tends to be captured by bigger-ticket items, like the Air Force's F-22 Raptors that cost $160 million each. The Raptor, a radar-evading jet fighter, has never been used in Iraq and Afghanistan. For the troops who patrol Baghdad's still-dangerous neighborhoods or track insurgents along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, there's no piece of gear more critical than the rifles on their shoulders. They go everywhere with them, even to the bathroom and the chow hall. Yet the military has a poor track record for getting high-quality firearms to warfighters. Since the Revolutionary War, mountains of red tape, oversize egos and never-ending arguments o
 
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k3n-54n       4/23/2008 5:18:28 PM
It is my understanding that a gas piston system is great for target practice, because it reduces fouling, but that in the field fouling is the least of your worries.  The problem in combat is sand and dust getting in the works, and direct gas impingement helps blow that dirt clear, thereby keeping the gun cleaner.  It still gets fouled eventually if it is not cleaned regularly, but it doesnt jam because of dust and sand, which would otherwise happen much faster and less predicatably.

Maybe if  we got rid of them entirely and just threw rocks...
 
 
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buzzard       4/24/2008 8:55:43 AM

It is my understanding that a gas piston system is great for target practice, because it reduces fouling, but that in the field fouling is the least of your worries.  The problem in combat is sand and dust getting in the works, and direct gas impingement helps blow that dirt clear, thereby keeping the gun cleaner.  It still gets fouled eventually if it is not cleaned regularly, but it doesnt jam because of dust and sand, which would otherwise happen much faster and less predicatably.

Maybe if  we got rid of them entirely and just threw rocks...
 

I have trouble believing this is true given that other systems which use gas pistons have proven more reliable in the field. Though the tight tolerances of the M16 design are probably the aspect which makes it unfavorable to gritty environments. I still find it very odd that the Iraqis are switching over to M16s over AK variants given the much greater reliability of the latter.

buzzard
 
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kensohaski       4/25/2008 10:51:38 AM
Or the money could be spent on training...
 
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flamingknives       4/25/2008 12:25:58 PM
By switching to armalites, the Iraqi Army has an instant bond with their US trainers, they have new guns (and a new gun is almost always more reliable than a very old, abused gun) and they have ammunition commonality with their allies and don't therefore have to buy dodgy stuff from ex-warpac or China.

Tactics versus logistics gents.
 
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Yimmy       4/25/2008 1:41:51 PM

By switching to armalites, the Iraqi Army has an instant bond with their US companies trainers,
The AK is far superior for the Iraqi army to be using for more reasons than I can count.  They are familiar with it, it is cheap, it is reliable in their environment, and it works.  They can purchase high quality ammunition from any number of military ammunition companies, such as Privi Partizan of Serbia.

 
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flamingknives       4/25/2008 4:13:43 PM
The IA is also familiar with bribery and corruption too, but familiarity is no real reason to keep something. If anything switching rifles might help to break some bad habits. Unless people want to suggest that the arabs of any stripe are too damn stupid to maintain and operate western weaponry. The main argument I could see in favour of the Kalashnikov is not that it is more reliable, but that the Iraqis used to make their own. That way you gain extra support by creating jobs for the Iraqis - give them something to do so there is less incentive to cause trouble. Bringing in guns from the US only gives the IA guns. Making them in-country reduces the opposition. Maybe license-build some of those funky US-spec conversions of the AK series with picatinny rails on them, maybe chambred for 5.56mm or 5.45mm. Hell, it might even be fun to give them one of the suggested calibre improvements (6.5 or 6.8).

License-built in country rifles, with optics, with the ammunition plants to support them. Big points on the morale front. 

I'm sure that the US does handsomely out of the arrangement too, but being as they are probably paying for it, one way or another, that's fair enough. As long as they admit and don't try to dress it up as something else.  Probably Colt are getting the contract, which IMHO is a bit of an error. One of the others (Magpul, FNH are the two I know offhand) would make sense as they wouldn't gouge the IA as much a Colt does with the US Army. ISTR that the USMC went with FNH for the M16A4?

IIRC, there was a bit of a stink recently where the Iraqi government went to Serbia for arms in what came across as a deal purely to get around the anti-corruption laws in place.
 
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Yimmy       4/25/2008 6:04:18 PM

The IA is also familiar with bribery and corruption too, but familiarity is no real reason to keep something.

Yes it is.  Being familiar with something already requires less new training, while logistically spare parts et al are easy to come by.

If anything switching rifles might help to break some bad habits.

How so?  Perhaps if the rifles were converted to semi-automatic only, however that could easily be done with existent AK's.

Unless people want to suggest that the arabs of any stripe are too damn stupid to maintain and operate western weaponry.

It isn't a matter of stupidity - but it is widely acknowledged that AK's are more suitable for less trained soldiers and militia.

The main argument I could see in favour of the Kalashnikov is not that it is more reliable, but that the Iraqis used to make their own. That way you gain extra support by creating jobs for the Iraqis - give them something to do so there is less incentive to cause trouble.

I agree.  However provided with the machinery, they could make any rifle.  It's the old give a man a fish, or teach him to fish, argument.

Bringing in guns from the US only gives the IA guns. Making them in-country reduces the opposition. Maybe license-build some of those funky US-spec conversions of the AK series with picatinny rails on them, maybe chambred for 5.56mm or 5.45mm. Hell, it might even be fun to give them one of the suggested calibre improvements (6.5 or 6.8).

Or perhaps they could just use a mixed armoury of AK's - as they are now.

To sum up my position. The American army argument for retaining the M4, is that no new rifle is considerably better than it, and so making a switch is not worth the effort.  I believe the same is true with Iraq and the AK.
 
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flamingknives       4/25/2008 8:29:04 PM
Considering that the IA is being trained from the ground up, a change in rifles isn't such a problem as you might think. Plus, with a new set of training regimes for the new rifles you might be able to break the spray and pray approach favoured by most AK users.

Widely acknowledged that AKs are more suitable for less well trained soldiers? The Iraqi Army is being trained by the Western armies to their standards. Their officers and senior NCOs are going through British Army schools, if nothing else. If that training isn't sufficient, then they must be stupid.

As for making the AKs, you can't claim that an Armalite is too high tolerance to be maintained, then claim that they could manufacture them as easily as AKs.

So we could stick them with a "Mixed armoury of AKs", or equip the army wholesale with new standard weaponry. Like as not, the cheapest rifle available in large numbers is probably an Armalite. AKs were dished out like sweets at a child's birthday party during the cold war which is why they are so prevalent and cheap, but tooling up an army is a different matter. The AKs just aren't made in large quantities any more unless you wish to buy from Russia or China.

Also against the mixed bag of decades old kalashnikovs is the logistics. With a mix-and-match of AKs you have to carry spare parts for all of them and have armourers proficient with the lot. Granted one AK is much like another, but there will be differences. You also have less control. With new-issue Armalites you have the serial numbers recorded so you know who ought to have what. If Armalites turn up in the hands of the bad guys, then you can tell who you have a problem with. Then there is the common image, which will appeal to the tribal instincts. People carrying the same kit are on your side. If it takes more discipline to clean than the AK, good. A bit of discipline in an army isn't a bad thing, last time I checked.

Finally, small arms wear out. That's why there were US Marines complaining about their SAWs in 2003. Guns wear out.
 
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Yimmy       4/25/2008 8:49:56 PM
Well you have failed to convince me.

But then the decision is already made and my opinion mute.


 
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YelliChink       4/26/2008 12:40:29 PM
Whatever rifle IA may use in the future, as long as it's not SA80, they'll be fine.
 
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