Ok, if you guys are cops I understand.

But you guys need to see this the way I do. I would be TERRIFIED to carry a gun. I am not sure if I would get in trouble for carrying it let alone using it. It is not worth the risk to me. I guess that is a shame, but there are morons out there I don't want packing.

By and large, the morons just don't bother to even try and get a permit.  They just carry without one.  The thing is that a pistol is concealable.  Unless the mope is really dumb about how its carried, or is so focused about having it that it effects the way he moves, nobody will notice.  He usually gets into trouble and THEN someone discovers that he's carrying.
I've been carrying off duty for about thirty years now, and I have NEVER been asked to show a permit, or questioned about it at all.  They only people who know I'm carrying, know who I am.  The Govt. Model is a fairly large piece, and I've no more than average size, but it any sensible choice of holster and jacket, it's no problem.   

"Why do some LEO advise 3 mags?  What is different now?" Earlm

 

Most officers only care two spare magazines. The real reason I carry three myself, is really just more out of habit. I started carrying three when I started carrying a P220 with single stack 7 round magazines. Before that (with a 92FS and P226 for uniform carry) I always just carried two spares. Now it's habit more than anything.

 

The main reason I carry the third in an open top vertical pouch, is that I am really not a huge fan of the standard magazine pouch. They're extremely secure and protect the magazines very well, but there is at least a little bit of built in awkwardness. I tried an open top dual mag carrier for a while. But, after losing 7 magazines in foot chases in the course of about a month, I decided it was better to be absolutely sure I would have at least one reload without having to crawl around looking for it. Carrying that third spare just gives me one for that one in a million eventuality that I'd need a speed reload, while I treat the two in the closed pouch as tactical reloads. All totaled, three spare 12 round magazines only gives me a three round advantage over Smitty's two spare 15 rounds magazines ... so it's nothing to do with firepower as far as I'm concerned.

 

On those rare occasions that I do carry off duty, I don't usually carry more than one reload. That's why I prefer carrying compatible pistols as pairs. Carrying something like a 2.5" S&W model 66 and a S&W 642 together with a 2X2X2 pouch of .38s slipped in my pocket or A Sig P228 and a S&W 940 along with one spare 228 magazine allows me to reload either pistol. More often than not, when I do carry ... I carry more than one pistol.

When on duty, but not working in uniform, I tend to carry more pistols than reloads. Usually something along the lines of a P220 in a strong side concealment holster (either a Galco Avenger or a Milt Sparks Summer Special) and two spare magazines on my off side, plus a 642 in an ankle or pocket holster (depending on what pants I'm wearing) makes up a good base line set up. From there, depending on what the situation is, is where I start adding more pistols while my reload count stays about the same. For serving high risk search or arrest warrants, a pair of P228s in a double Galco Miami Classic is quick and easy to throw on under a raid jacket. Another 642 or two might find it's way into a jacket or pants pocket as well. But, I don't generally add more magazines though, as I treat the additional pistols as reloads themselves.

 

Anyway, that's my thoughts on all of that.

 

Yimmy,
I won't speak for other states, but in Texas open carry is strictly prohibited in public. Unlawfully carrying a weapon statutes do not differentiate between concealed or open carry. For license holders, there is a specific statute declaring it an offense for a license holder to knowingly fail to conceal his sidearm. Those only apply to public areas, however. On private property, the owner of said property, or people authorized by that property owner, may carry openly on that property ... whether it's a ranch in the panhandle or a liquor store.

 

Smitty,
I tend to have a different view on carrying off duty. For one, I never carry solely on the badge. My department, like most, holds you accountable to the policies and procedures regarding the use of force when carrying off duty. I prefer to carry on a permit because it relieves me of departmental action.

 

Honestly, if it's just me out and about running to Lowe's or something, I find carrying to be a pain in the ass. The only time I ever do is when I have the wife and kids with me, but then it's only because of my responsibility to protect them. I live 75 miles outside my division, so I'm not all that concerned about bumping into all those back seat death threats on a daily basis. I'm not required by regs to carry off duty unless I am inside the city limits anyway.

 

Longrifle,
Congrats and good luck. As of a few weeks ago, I am back in patrol for the first time in four years. And I don't know why, but my old uniforms seem a lot tighter now. I guess they shrunk hanging in the back of the closet all that time. I don't know ... it's wierd. But watch out for that!

I got a Kel-Tec P-32 some years back, thinking its small size and light weight would make it an ideal carry piece for whatever I wanted to do.  Went for the permit, and found the questionnaire was 90% about whether or not you are or have been a drug user.  Several weeks later I got the permit, and carried two or three times before it got put back up.  I guess I didn't really need it after all, I just like being able to go out with it if I want to, as it is my natural right.  But for a bedside gun, the P-32 isn't really a man-stopper, and it's a pistol, besides.  Much better to have a larger calibre revolver, so I keep a Chief's Special (five shot .38 special) handy.

For those of you who carry, EITHER civilian or off duty LEO, What do you carry and why. For the rest what would you carry out and amongst them if you could.

Check Six

Rocky

Well now an an M9 because its what's in our TO&E. I WOULD NEVER HAVE PURPOSELY CHOSEN this weapon. However, being forced to live with it, I've learned to appreciate some of it's features. It is one of two weapons I am assigned, the other being an M4 which can be quite inconvienient when I'm in a FOB. The M9 is VERY durable and utterly reliable if you keep the magazines clean of dust. It's a solid accurate weapon with a lot of firepower as far as pistols go. I usually carry 2 to 3 magazines when not on mission in a Miami Classic shoulder holster(which are colloquially known as FOBBIT Holster or Gucci Gear). Some people(mostly young) who what to look the part of a SOF operator use thigh holsters. I've learned that thigh holsters can be a real pain if you need to get to your weapon quickly while seated or in vehicles. I also don't like losing the cargo pocket on my ACU pants. I'll say it again, this is a very reliable weapon. I've never had a malfunction and I'm not very obsessive about weapons maintenance. A drop or two of oil on the slide rails and a good wipe down with a tuff cloth(convieniently stored in my right cargo pocket) is about all I do. Sometimes I where an overgarment over my pistol when I'm off duty but it's not intended to conceal anything although it works ok especially at night. The M9 is really a bit to big to be concealed in a horizontal shoulder and a careful look with reveal obvious bulges. Be sure to go baggy if you try this.

The standard NATO 9mm round comes out hard and fast with  lot of penetrating power. It is effective out to grenade range and will penetrate unarmoured civilian vehicles, wind shields, light barriers and heavy clothing with no problem. I would say the lethality and wound effects are about as good as you can get with treaty obligations so be sure to aim center mass or go for a head shot if possible to ensure a vital organ or central nervous system hit. Blood loss from other hits will incapacitate most people in minutes. In a pistol this size recoil is not an issue. Speaking of size the M9 is a very effective blunt instrument in hand to hand in the rare event you find that necessary.

Coming to America...

 

I prefer to carry light and small weapons in the USA. I used to carry several magazines or speed loaders but now I wouldn't really bother. CCW situations in the USA almost never require more than a few rounds although I do appreciate the fact that having an extra magazine or loader isnt a bad idea just in case. In most concealed weapon scenarios I trained for though too much extra ammo can reduce the effectiveness of concealment. Even if you are successful at hiding the weapon and ammo if the weight and bulk are uncomfortable. Most people will constantly be adjusting themselves to compensate and a trained eye would notice. Statistics show that multiple reload situations are very rare for CCW shootings and I'm comfortable with the odds. As far as specific weapons, I've carried all kinds back home. If I had to pick I would go for my Kahr or S&W 340PD. My views on those are in another post... 

 

h*tp://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/29-4555.aspx

 

 

-DA

For those of you who carry, EITHER civilian or off duty LEO, What do you carry and why. For the rest what would you carry out and amongst them if you could.

Check Six

Rocky

I've mostly switched to carrying a 10mm 1911 in an IWB these days, though I've carried assorted other options in the past.  The 10mm I've got is one of the Dan Wesson Classic Bobtails and with the bobtail MSH it's one of the more concealable and comfortable pistols I've ever had in an IWB.  Bit heavy being all stainless, but I'm comfortable with that.

I think that you'll find that it is vastly harder to legally own a handgun in the UK than anywhere you care to name in the US.

Flaming, Washington DC is our nation's capital and handguns are illegal there. Period. As a result of centuries of liberal rule. It has the worst crime record of any city in the country, and if you were a member of the Olympic team you would have to practice in another state.

Check Six

 

Rocky

 

The responses here were about what I expected. The reason I asked here was because at a recent USPSA shoot our club hosted several LEO participated. At the after event BBQ allot of those guys were packing multiple guns, off duty, as well as carrying 2-3 spare magazines, speed strips, & speed loaders, et. It seemed odd to me and when I asked one guy who had a Kimber in a IWB holster for concealed carry why he was carrying two spare mags in some kind of weird ankle rig he looked at me like I had two heads. Maybe the Denver cops just do things differently.

 

I agree with Smitty that the best part of valor is retreat and with cell phones that is easier to do than ever, you can call for help fast. That said, I'd hate to be gunned down with no options so I do carry. I won't be a victim if I can help it!

 

I hope none of you ever has to use a weapon in defense, and if you do, you flame the bastards before they know what hit 'em. The rest of US should continue to support more open conceal carry laws and help make bad guys a thing of the past.

 

Check Six

 

Rocky

 

 

     When I was still on the road, I had several distinct phases that I went through:

 

   Newb phase:  Sig 220 w/ 3 mags of hydrashocks

   Vet stage:   Colt Double Eagle w/ 5 mags (3 SXTs, 2 FMJs) 5 additional loaded mags in squad

   "Back in town" phase:  Sig 226 SP w 3 mags SXTs (.40), X-26

   County-mounty phase:  Glock 22 w/3 mags

 

   My Sig 220 was usually my first choice for off-duty carry, though I may replace it with my Sig 225 (loaded with... you guessed it... SXTs)

 

Z

Are LEOs permitted to carry off duty? Civilian LEOs, at all?