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Subject: SMG preffered firing mode
bravoss    6/13/2007 6:10:49 PM
whats the best firing mode or atleast most often used mode on submachine guns ? as far as i know most people use it on single shot, but because of the low recoil why wouldnt it be used on 3 round burst or full auto mode ? older smgs such as thompson are designed with full auto mode only, why is there a switch from burst firing to single shot ?
 
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VelocityVector    A General Statement   6/13/2007 8:22:38 PM
Older weaps were never intended for modern missions in terms of precision.  I've fired disparate fully automatic weapons as an amateur.  Recoil is largely a concern at the shoulder.  Muzzle hopping affects the business end and hence shot placement.  Professionals must place shot only on a target and definitely never on a hostage or bystander.  Burst or full auto and placement suffers relative to single shot in a material sense.  Mission defeat.  OTOH if you fear being overrun then switch to auto, I'd imagine that's a nice option to have at crunch time.  Note the Tommie has a foregrip -- why? (dance)

v^2
 
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flamingknives       6/14/2007 4:42:47 PM
The SAS, in the Iranian embassy siege, reputedly used full automatic SMGs, since the range was very close and the rpimary concern to drop the terrorists. Plus, of course, the SAS have the training and skills to hold a sustained burst on target.

These days, SMGs are more commonly used by paramilitary forces and police where such force would be, at best, indescriminate. Especially in the hands of the less-well trained.
 
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Horsesoldier       6/15/2007 11:15:15 PM
Semi automatic is preferred for close quarters shooting in most modern schools of thought because of its precision and controllability.  A good modern (and closed bolt) SMG like the MP5 is pretty accurate and controllable, even on fully automatic, but it's kind of a moot point since 5.56mm carbines are preferred over SMGs in any case.
 
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Rasputin       6/16/2007 12:40:08 AM
What happened to the 3 round burst tap, to spray into a target, that was a commandment that was even seared into selector switches for some 5.56 rifles.

Also recommended to use a 3 rd automatic burst for the MP5 as well. Now a days, semi auto single shot is what is most often used on SMGs.

However there is one semi auto SMG that I have heard of. A British made Sterling "Police Carbine" that can even accept a scope. Bear in mind the 9mm round used is a true SMG largo round which is supposed to have a 150 to 200m range, as opposed to the 9mm pistol ammo of the MP5.
 
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Jeff_F_F       6/16/2007 9:30:39 AM
9mm Parabelum is the long round. Few pistols use 9mm short.
 
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Horsesoldier       6/16/2007 11:31:38 AM

What happened to the 3 round burst tap, to spray into a target, that was a commandment that was even seared into selector switches for some 5.56 rifles.

The three round burst selector was a technological fix to poor training.  A lot of draftee troops in the Vietnam era were prone to firing an entire magazine on automatic at any threat.  One solution would have been more range time to teach proper shooting skills.  Another solution would be just disabling or limiting the automatic capability of the weapon they were issued.
The US military went with route #2 as it was developing the M16A2 in the early days of the all-volunteer force (and some other nations have done so as well).  Training has largely supersceded the issue in any case, but it remains a feature of those weapons issued to most Big Army or USMC units.  I will be surprised if whatever rifle or carbine we replace the M16/M4 series with retains a burst setting (unless it also incorporates fully automatic as well).
 
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flamingknives       6/19/2007 4:21:55 PM
The round fired from a Sterling SMG is a 9x19mm parabellum, although it does tend to be a +P+, so it's a pretty hot load - more so than is typically used in pistols. It is exactly the same as the ammunition used in the MP5. 

Semi selectors mean more parts and more cost, and many of the famous SMGs were made as cheaply as possible

That said, the Sten could hit and inflict damage at 200 yards, and most people only know the dire reputation of that weapon.
 
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