Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Weapons of the World Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: .357 Magnum stopping power
GOP    3/12/2007 10:24:42 PM
Whatsup guys? What kind of Self defense round is the .357 mag? Some of you may know that I'm 17, but I'm a gun nut, and love the S&W 686 with 4 inch barrel in .357 mag/.38 special. I'd use the gun almost completely for shooting at the range, but when I turn 21 I plan on getting my CCW license/pistol permit so it would then be used legally as a self-defense weapon. Just curious what your thoughts on the round is. The reason I like it is because it's stainless steal, and therefore won't rust (we own a fishing boat and it may be used by my Dad on the boat as a Self-Defense weapon). It's also highly, highly thought of in the NSW community (most SEALs don't like the the Sig P226 Navy, because they basically rust at the sound of "salt water")
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: PREV  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17   NEXT
RockyMTNClimber       3/19/2007 11:07:13 PM
so once again you throw silly deprecating barbs
 
Quote    Reply

Yimmy       3/19/2007 11:13:10 PM
Rocky, no need to cry about it, it's just a forum.
 
You don't have to agree with me, but then my "silly liberal rubbish", beats your "Right of Hitler, red-neck, hill-billy, Jim-Bub babble". 
 
So nerrr.
 
 
Quote    Reply

RockyMTNClimber    Lord son, that the best you got?   3/19/2007 11:16:53 PM

Rocky, no need to cry about it, it's just a forum.
You don't have to agree with me, but then my "silly liberal rubbish", beats your "Right of Hitler, red-neck, hill-billy, Jim-Bub babble". 
So nerrr.
 



 
Quote    Reply

Yimmy       3/20/2007 12:57:05 AM
I think someone is taking things a little too much to heart?
 
 
Quote    Reply

smitty237    Ceasefire   3/20/2007 1:14:31 AM
Take a deep breath, boys.  You two aren't as far apart as it would seem.  Yimmy, you said that you would carry a firearm if you could, and in the US some of us have that right.  If you are a cop anywhere in the US, by Federal law you have the right to carry a concealed firearm ANYWHERE in the United States.  Selected states allow trained citizens to carry concealed firearms, and some other states respect concealed carry permits from other states. 
 
Yimmy, your scenario is correct.  If a bad guy wants to ambush me with a rod or a "pointed stick" (apologies to Monty Python), then there is little I can do.  However, if I am in a gas station or bank and a bad guy walks in with a gun I am not helpless.  Same goes for a situation in which a terrorist or psycho walks into a shopping mall or other public gathering with murder on his mind.  A number of public massacres (including the one at Dublane) could have been ended quickly if citizens in good legal standing had been armed with concealed firearms. 
 
Quote    Reply

Yimmy       3/20/2007 2:11:42 AM
Indeed.  Anyhow Rocky, I didin't mean any offence, I was just winding you up.  I find it hard to take heated debates on the internet seriously.
 
To change the topic a bit, in not too long I intend to purchase my first firearm.  I will use it 80% of the time for 50m, slow fire, target shooting.  15% of the time will be practicle shooting competitions, again out to a maximum of 50m's, but shooting more rapidly and from different positions.  The remaiing 5% of the time will be slow fire again, but on longer ranges out to 300m's.
 
Due to my local little range being pistol calibers only, I can't get a full power rifle.  Due to UK legislation, semi-automatic is also out.  Due to the competition rules, no magnified optics are allowed.  So what do you lot recommend?
 
At tht moment I am thinking of either a Marlin in .357 with Williams peep-sights, or perhaps in .45 Colt with tang-sights, for an older look.  That, or a modern Enfield clone using automatic pistol magazines in either 9mm, .38 Super, .357 magnum, 10mm auto or .45 ACP.  A small British company make them.  I don't see the point in going for .44 magnum, it would just be extra recoil and expense not needed for target shooting, while .357 etc shoot flatter.
 
http://www.armalon.com/images/3pcs_lres.jpg" width=300 border=0>
 
or...
 
http://www.rimfiremagic.co.uk/images/marlin/marlin_rifles.jpg" width=310 border=0>
 
These .22's are cool too - at least they are the closest you can get here to an automatic pistol.
 
http://www.rimfiremagic.co.uk/images/newimages/DSCN1208.JPG" width=400 border=0>
 
You can also get strange lever action AR15's in .30 carbine among other things.
 
All these are hugely expensive of course.  The pistol above goes for £550, being about $1,000.  While in the US I would guess such a Buckmark .22 would go for what, $250?  The gallery rifles above go for around £650 for a stock Marlin, or £1,000 for the Enfield.  Not cheap eh?
 
 
Quote    Reply

GOP       3/20/2007 12:50:55 PM

Rocky, I knew exactly what your post was saying before I read it.  Stereotypes can be cruel, if deserved thing. :)

 

It is a fair argument, that if you have a gun it is easier to defend yourself.  However the attacker will always have the inititive.  It will always be far more likely that the attacker knocks you down, your being armed or otherwise, if he aims to.  As such it is far more likely that your gun will end up in the criminals hands, and possibly be used in a future crime, than of your using it to defend yourself.

 

Me, if it was legal for me to carry a firearm, I would.  But only because I knew that many people, far stupider than myself, would also be carrying firearms.


Yimmy, you make a good point about the attacker having the initiative. However, a .357 round (or any bullet) does not care who has the initiative or who doesn't...if the victim draws his weapon and makes the first shot count, then it's game over for the bag guy.
 
You make another good point about being hit with a stick, and how a gun won't do much in that scenario. One of my Dad's employees was hit with a baseball bat and KTFO'd when he was counting change and money at my Dad's carwash. Situational Awareness would have done so much more than a gun in that scenario, because if he was aware of his surroundings (ie: saw a guy walking towards him with a baseball bat), then he could have drawn his gun and put a couple of rounds in the attackers head...but luckily for the bad guy, my Dad's employee did not see him, and luckily for my Dad's employee, he had no serious injuries and was OK.

Carrying a gun isn't something you do to look tough or to use indiscriminately. The gun is there for the worst case scenarios in life, and it gives you a much higher survivability rate then not having one. An example: If someone breaks into my house at night, then they are perceived as a deadly threat and will be dealt with accordingly. My Dad has a DE .50 in his nightstand, and I sleep up the stairs (walkway over looking the front door), so I could quickly get to our gun cabinet up there and get out our AR-15 or 12 gauge and blow holes in the dude. We take things like that very seriously, and have gone over the best plan of attack for almost every scenario that could arise. We aren't Wyatt Earp looking for someone to kill, we are very educated and just do the best we can to protect ourselves if the need arises.
 
By the way, I'm definitely not trying to make you feel like we are ganging up on you. I highly respect your opinion and just happen to slightly disagree.
 
Quote    Reply

CMN606       3/21/2007 11:18:57 PM
I am a big fan of the 686 and equally as much of a fan of the .357. In the last year or so I have narrowed down my selection of service type handguns to three, and a 686 was one of them. It's what I consider the benchmark of modern revolvers and combat handguns in general. If you do pick one up, try to look around for a used one. Preferably pre-94' or so.
As far as book recommendations go ... I never have been much of a fan of Jeff Cooper, but longrifle hit on my favorite with Bill Jordan's "No second place winner". You might benefit from just about anything written by Massad Ayoob. Another good one thats not so much about self defence as much as revolver shooting in general if Ed McGivern's "fast and fancy revolver shooting". It's pretty dated in most respects, but it will make an impression on you.
 
Quote    Reply

RockyMTNClimber    Of Cooper and Ayoob   3/22/2007 12:23:24 AM
... I never have been much of a fan of Jeff Cooper........ You might benefit from just about anything written by Massad Ayoob.
 
Curious. Ayoob makes great use of Jeff Cooper's work and sites him properly. (taking nothing away from Mr. Jordan)
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
Quote    Reply

CMN606       3/22/2007 2:33:38 AM
I have no problem with the techniques advanced by Jeff Cooper for the most part, just his methods. I admittedly fall pretty squarely into the modern technique clique ... strong weaver and all. I do think his pretty much complete dismissal of instinctive shooting at closer ranges leaves a little room for debate though. Inside 7 yards instinctive techniques even going back to Applegate and Fairbairn have their place. Jeff Cooper is a little too dismissive of it's utility from my perspective. I know he bitched and moaned about where IPSC wound up (and I agree with him), but it really does show the natural progression of his modern technique and its reliance on what I consider a little too narrow of an approach to a question with more than one answer. There really is more than one way to skin a cat ... and its pretty damn helpful to know them all. Jeff Cooper's ego tended to prevent him from admitting that.
 
But mainly, I just never really cared for him personally. I didn't know him in his heyday back in the 60's (cause I wasn't born yet) ... but he struck me as pretty much just a belligerent old coot. Both times I met him, I was really anything but awe struck. I think he wound up getting too caught up in his Hemmingway-ish philosopher warrior crap for his own good after a while. I think his work and his continued contribution suffered a lot because of that. Overall, he pretty much epitomizes every piss poor instructor I've ever seen ... so he's just not to my taste. Just my opinion though.
 
I won't even mention my thoughts on Chuck Taylor!
 
But on Ayoob. Very true .. he has built on Cooper's work quite a bit. But I think his most impressive contribution is taking it above and beyond just the fine motor skills needed, and bringing the brain more into the equation. His contributions can be very educational in putting a lot of things into perspective and also removing a little of the glamour that too many get caught up in.
 
 
Quote    Reply
PREV  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17   NEXT



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics