Thats the thing though, I'm not talking about a purely biological creation. I'm talking about non-living nano-scale machines which is possible in theory...

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...Such devices are not fantasy even if they are beyond todays means in the practical sense. This includes nano-scale  RF communications. Herald don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that we are anywhere near able to use these things in practice. I'm not saying they would even be safe. Only that some of the theories are sound and being extensively researched.

DA

Those"machines are tinkertoy molecular sculptures that are two orders of magnitude too large to eat jet fuel in most cases.

What  will jet fuel is something like this;

>>

The entire article can be found at
> will find the explanation useful as to how "machines" , in this case tiny electric motors that operate a screw propellor actually occur as solutions in biology. it is why I suggest that the machines we build at the size scales necessary to do the work we want, will be closer to germs than cars.

One more thing. Engineers imitate success. They don't re-invent the wheel. There are naturally occuring microbes [like paramecia] that already eat oil. Fortunately for us they are finicky eaters. Anuthing we build in imitation is likely to be so fouled up that it won't work as we expected. And as I wrote, any successful mistake for the manufactured microbe that ensures its survival  is not good news for us as far as we are concerned.

Herald.

Herald,

I'm taking a slightly more optimistic view. Admittedly I'm no expert in nanotech. But with my very cursory understanding and background I'm inclined to believe that non-biological solutions are out there in the near to long term. Humanity is on the verge of being able to manipulate matter at the molecular and atomic level and when that capability becomes practical outside the lab environment we are in for some unbelievable new things that would be unthinkable before that happens. I'm reading some of Drexler and Kurzweil's work now and if even a fraction of the things I'm reading about are possible then my goodness!

As an engineer I tend to think that anything is possible within reason. Even machines or technology that mimics biology. In fact I see technology as the natural evolution of biology that will allow humanity to overcome biological limitations. When applied to military affairs the results of that evolution will be stunning. Small nano sized machines, combining the best features of biology and technology, will become a reality in my lifetime in my opinion and they will allow for some fantastic weaponry. But I think nano machines attacking fuel molecules are at the low end of the spectrum of whats possible. I don't know enough to say with any authority what the upper limit is or how successful we will be in this field. I do know though that it will be successful to some degree. Like atomic weapons this type of weaponry will make all previous forms of warfare pale by comparison. Especially in the amount of precision.


DA

.............know that the great enemy of all nanotechnology is HEAT.

You pour a few grams of carbon molecule structured nano machines in my hand and those machines will be cooked and welded solid inside of thirty seconds.

Pour a few liters of water saturated with microbes in my hand and those microbes will frisk away happily.

Why?

About a billion years of developed chemistry and bio-insulation as well as clever biological  heat dissiapation adaptation.

We haven't even begun to solve the problem of molecular welding of moving parts with our simplest constructs . How do you think we are going to engineer at the pico-scale the free floating permanent magnet motor  that the flagellum uses?

Herald

Heat is a great obstacle of a lot of things. Space flight, heck even flight through the air if you go fast enough. The beauty of nanotechnology is that it is at the molecular and atomic levels.  There are materials and organisms that can survive in these environments. If their weren't, no one would be trying to develop this technology as it would be a dead end. Again as I said before, the technology is not mature, YET. It probably wont be mature for a decade or more outside of the lab. But when it is, one of the issues that will be resolved is heat and friction. This most definitely is not baloney. Nanotechnology not being my discipline, I cant speak with authority on specific methods. Neither can anyone else on this forum I suspect. But considering that humanity has mastered things like nuclear physics and manned space flight I wouldn't want to bet against us in this technology.

DA

The time estimates are way off, DA.

Solid state nano-technology is about twenty years away. Moving nano technology is CENTURIES.We don't have the materials science.

Herald

Northrop opens first US laser weapons plant

Andrea Shalal-Esa, Reuters | Jan 17, 2007

WASHINGTON: Northrop Grumman Corp. on Tuesday opened the first U.S. production facility for high-energy laser weapons, saying it hoped to benefit from rapid growth in the new class of weapons that are cheaper to operate than traditional missiles.

"We see this capability emerging very quickly. The government is moving in this direction," Mike McVey, president of Northrop's directed energy systems business, told a teleconference. "We're positioning ourselves to be ready when they want more capability."

McVey declined to say how much the new facility in Redondo Beach, California, cost but said it could be used to build three 100-kilowatt lasers at the same time, and could also do classified work for the military. He gave no further details.

"Powerful military lasers, with their speed-of-light targeting capabilities and cost-effective operation, have the potential to transform the way we equip our armed forces defending our country abroad and protecting it at home against terrorist threats," Alexis Livanos, president of Northrop Grumman's Space Technology sector, said in a statement.

The company aims to build and demonstrate a 100-kilowatt solid state laser by the end of 2008, McVey said. A weapon of that size could be used to shoot down rockets, artillery and mortar from ground, air or sea-based platforms.

Northrop officials said the life cycle cost, including operations and maintenance expenses, of a laser system was one-quarter of the cost of a traditional missile-based system.

Because lasers require only electricity to operate and no other munitions, they can keep firing at targets indefinitely, McVey said. "As long as you have fuel, you never run out of bullets ... You can keep firing," he said.

The new plant was an important step toward making lasers affordable weapons for the military to use. Northrop said the plant could create up to 50 jobs.

The Pentagon has been working to develop laser weapons for over three decades, aided by Northrop, Lockheed Martin Corp., Raytheon Co. and Boeing Co.

The military already uses lasers to guide bombs and in laser sights and rangefinders, but has balked at fielding lasers as weapons in their own right, while it weighs international law and other issues.

Northrop said it obtained a U.S. marketing license and last week briefed the Israeli government on a system called Skyguard that would use lasers to shield airport and other installations from rockets, ballistic missiles and other threats.

The system would generate a shield of five kilometers in radius, with the cost of shielding a typical airport put at around $25 million to $30 million.

McVey said Northrop was one of four to five bidders, and Israel expected to choose a rocket defense system soon.

Northrop also expected to finalize a contract with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security by the end of the week to study the possibility of using Skyguard to protect U.S. airports.