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Subject: red dot sights...
bravoss    11/13/2006 6:26:44 PM
how useful are they in cqb combat? i never used one,so i'm interested if they are more useful than ironsights(i'm not sure how often people actually use them in cqb). are they prone to malfunctioning ?
 
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smitty237       11/14/2006 4:35:40 AM
I can't speak for their use in combat, but they are quite useful for SWAT work.  They allow you to clear rooms or engage targets with both eyes open, something you cannot do with iron sights.  The high end modern sights are very rugged and maintain their zero very well.  The weakest link in red dot sights are the batteries.  When they go out the sights are useless.  That's why some sight mounts will allow you to use your iron sights in an emergency without removing the mount and possibly screwing up the zero.  Some of my guys recently went to training and said that they were able to engage 300 meter targets using the red dot sights.  I would highly recommend them, but would still suggest training users in the use of iron sights.
 
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Horsesoldier       11/14/2006 6:56:02 AM
Red dots, for close quarters work, are decisively superior to the alternatives.  Superior situational awareness and faster onto targets make them the standard these days.
 
As far as malfunctions go, quality versions like AimPoint or EOTech have proven themselves sturdy enough for combat use.  Cheaper ones tend to be, well, cheaper and may not hold up as well.
 
Batterly life is an issue, as Smitty noted, but they're not a very big issue, compared to the benefits.  I'd rather have to haul around a pair of spare AA batteries for my EOTech that be stuck with iron sights.
 
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bravoss       11/14/2006 9:32:28 AM
thanks
 
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Yimmy       11/14/2006 9:56:26 AM
I am not a fan of red dot sights, I really do not like them at all.
 
I would sooner either have a 4X optic like SUSAT or ACOG, being good for long range engagements and also good for CQB, simply by aiming rapidly down the flat top of the sight unit like a shotgun, or basic iron sights for environments such as jungle where the sight will fog easily.
 
 
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longrifle       11/15/2006 11:30:52 AM
Very usefull in CQB.  They're standard for police tactical units.


 
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bravoss       11/19/2006 5:56:34 PM
thanks
 
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rockymtnclimber    Eotech/Red Dot v. Iron   11/20/2006 3:22:23 PM
 
I have spent a lifetime shooting over iron sights. When I took my LE training in the late 70's-early 80's I shot Colt A.R.'s, Mini-14's, and of course shotguns & handguns, again over iron  sights. I have spent the last 10 years really getting to know a wide variety of scoped high power rifles in alot of extreme conditions.
 
These new optics are as far removed from the old "scopes" as the flintlock is from the Winchester Model 70! I recently ran a tactical course with a Eotech sight atop a Bushmaster Stuby carbine. Wow! I did not miss a shot on our local course and that was with no real instruction. It turned the squint your eye and "sight over the top" concept into a video game point and shoot event! No wonder the Kids in Iraq don't leave the barracks without them!
 
By far these systems are incredibly reliable. Reliable enough that every tactical unit in military special operations/SWAT are using them (if they weren't reliable that would not be the case). Even old dogs like me take them up without hessitation. I am no longer in the business. But if I was on patrol tonight you can bet my carbine would have one of those sweet systems on them.
 
"Fogging" only can happen if the system is broken open and these things are so tight now that anything that damages the optics can damage the rifle just as fast.
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
 
 
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Yimmy       11/20/2006 3:26:34 PM
 

"Fogging" only can happen if the system is broken open and these things are so tight now that anything that damages the optics can damage the rifle just as fast.

Or if it's just humid... or if it's cold and you breath on it....
 
 
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rockymtnclimber    Actually, no Yimmy....   11/20/2006 8:30:50 PM
 
Modern optics are filled with an inert gas and can not fog internally unless its seal is broken and the inert gas is contaminated with normal air (with moisture in it). The metals and glass that they make these things out of today is really phenomenal and is as tough as the rifle's action (I jumped out of the back of a over-turning Jeep a couple of years back and hit the rear bell on my Leupold VariXlll on a rock. It bent the edge of the scope's rear bell but the rifle never lost zero. I test fired a sub-moa group with it later that night). The external optic surfaces are also treated to prevent fogging and I can tell you that is very rare in modern high tech scopes and optics.
 
As a matter of fact the "Murphy factor" on modern high quality optics is allot lower today than it was even 15 years ago. The reason everyone uses them is because they are very, very, very reliable. Those
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
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Yimmy       11/20/2006 9:44:32 PM
Hmm, I have very bad memories of competing in shooting competitions, to be at the 100m point with the rifle in the ready, waiting for the target to pop up, for on its appearance to be greated with nothing but mist, with no target in sight.
 
(I had of course breathed on the scope - it being cold.)
 
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