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Subject: next terrorist weapon
andyf    8/26/2006 8:34:34 AM
rather than liquid bombs or other explosives.. why havent the terrorists worked out that a bit of mustard gas/phosgene/etc released on a plane at altitude would be a hell of a weapon.? some things would be so easy to make, how about a thermos flask with liquified carbon monoxide in it? the air on a plane is recirculated- ok , so the terroris dies as well, but they dont care about that
 
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flamingknives       8/26/2006 9:28:11 AM
Because no-one suggested it? Because aircraft also have back-up air?
 
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Rommel    EMP   8/9/2007 1:18:46 PM
Terroists may try to launch an EMP attack on us next(has the ability to knock out all of the countrys electronics if detonated at high enough altitude.)
 
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Jeff_F_F    EMP terrorist attacks...   8/10/2007 3:33:27 PM
...will be possible just as soon as the terrorists get a nuke, and a rocket to boost it to high altitude. So lets just say as soon at terrorist organizations get nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles this will be an issue. Not that is isn't something to be concerned about, but it is a low order probability scenario compared to others.
 
The problem with most toxins other than nerve gas is that it takes a fairly large amount to do much damage. You will probably make people sick with something like mustard gas but outside of a fairly small area you won't cause a lot of deaths. Look at how relatively ineffective the sarin attacks on the Tokyo subway were. On avarage only 1-2 deaths were caused per attack. Granted if that had been staged at the midpoint of an intercontinental airline flight it would have been a lot worse because the victims would have been exposed for a longer period of time and treatment would have been delayed. But you still have to get the (liquid) compound on the plane.
 
I'd be more worried about someone putting a small package of commercial or improvised explosive under a tanker truck myself, and blowing it up on a bridge in the middle of rush hour. Or the same on a railcar. There are still some wood rail bridges out there which could be completely taken out by this method. Or a very nasty fire could be started in a tunnel, especially if the bomb was large enough to derail the train.
 
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andyf       8/20/2007 3:42:03 PM
heres a terror plot for you.
 oil tanker loading its cargo in a mid-east rogue state, oil-proof packages of HE with an internal detonator are posted into the oil tanks
timer/ gps fusing?
should act like a masive FAE if you set it up right
 
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DarthAmerica       8/20/2007 4:03:35 PM

Terroists may try to launch an EMP attack on us next(has the ability to knock out all of the countrys electronics if detonated at high enough altitude.)



Think about why what you are suggesting is IMPOSSIBLE. Here is a hint...if what you suggest was true, a single AWACS would "see" every plane over the USA. Can't make it any easier...
 
 
-DA
 
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doggtag       8/20/2007 4:25:39 PM

heres a terror plot for you.

 oil tanker loading its cargo in a mid-east rogue state, oil-proof packages of HE with an internal detonator are posted into the oil tanks

timer/ gps fusing?

should act like a masive FAE if you set it up right


Oil supertankers got nothing on LNG tankers.
Some ports almost shut down shipping completely, and provide considerable overwatch, to allow safe passage of an LNG tanker.
The liquified natural gas will reach vapor point, and rapidly spread the resulting fireball, much more quickly than thick crude oil.

 
 
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andyf       8/20/2007 4:46:22 PM
these tankers? they go to any major ports , or are they restricted on destinations.
 
 
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the British Lion       8/20/2007 4:52:04 PM
I swear, if a mustard gas bomb goes off in my town 'cause of this damn thread, I'll be coming for you Andyf!
 
B.L.
 
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WarNerd       8/28/2007 1:47:42 AM




heres a terror plot for you.



 oil tanker loading its cargo in a mid-east rogue state, oil-proof packages of HE with an internal detonator are posted into the oil tanks



timer/ gps fusing?



should act like a masive FAE if you set it up right




Oil supertankers got nothing on LNG tankers.
Some ports almost shut down shipping completely, and provide considerable overwatch, to allow safe passage of an LNG tanker.

The liquified natural gas will reach vapor point, and rapidly spread the resulting fireball, much more quickly than thick crude oil.
Typical political scare mongering.
LNG is a LOT SAFER than they make out in the fiction books and movies.
 
 

·         LNG a liquid at atmospheric pressure, not a gas like CNG.   It’s not stored at high pressure, so it flows fairly slowly, not screaming out in a jet. Pound to found LNG is probably less dangerous than gasoline.

·         Because the LNG is a cryogenic liquid, those huge tanks are double walled and very tough, with several feet of insulation between to the two walls. The insulation is also a load bearing structure, so it adds to the toughness of the design.

·         Yes, LNG will vaporize as it absorbs heat from it’s surrounding, but that slows and stops as the area around it is cooled. Revaporizing a tanker load of LNG is simple in concept, but a major engineering project in reality. Igniting the vapor will help heat and vaporize the rest, but once vaporized it’s low density causes it to spreads vertically, not horizontally like a liquid. Don’t expect to get a ground hugging fireball.

·         There have been several large accidents involving LNG, but all have been at the liquefaction plants, not on the tankers.

Having said all that, I would want to live next to either an oil of LNG terminal.

If I were a terrorist I would look for an oil tanker with a mixed load of gasoline (for a big fireball), diesel fuel or kerosene (to create a burning oil slick), and a medium grade sour crude (sour = sulfur, to make a stink, and the rest to contaminate the area and make cleanup as time consuming, and visually disgusting as possible) .


 
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Nasty German Idiot       8/28/2007 9:03:54 AM
The goal of the terrorists is to create fear and terror,  and additionally kill as many as possible.  I think the next action will be some kind of kidnapping, nerve breaking thing with hostages and bombs involved.
The Chechens were quite successful with their attacks against the School in Beslan and the Show in Moscow some years ago, and Al-Quaida has started a massive kidnapping campaign.  Also the standoff in the Red Mosque points in that direction, I think they will try to conduct such a thing sooner or later, in a Western state.  Such desperate acts were conducted often in the past when terrorist organisations got cornered or were loosing ground. 
 
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