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Subject: .357 SIG
longrifle    6/26/2006 2:27:27 AM
Anybody use it, and what do you think of it? I've got two .40 Glocks and I'm considering buying a .357 SIG barrel for one of them. I've read that some people think it recoils a little "snappy," but the .40 does too and I really don't have any problem with that.

Also, does anyone know if it's safe to use a .357 SIG barrel in a first generation Glock Model 22? The pistol is in good condition mechanically, but I bought it second hand and I don't know how many rounds have been through it.
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:.357 SIG   6/26/2006 4:55:15 PM
I used it in my P229. I liked it but back then the ammoe was a little hard to come by. I mostly use the .40 Cal barrel now due to more available ammo. Recoil is there but its not bad at all. I think there is very little difference in recoil between .40 and .357 sig personally. Verify this through the manufacturer for safety purposes but if the G22 has a .357 barrel as an after market option. The pressures should be well within its ability to handle it.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:.357 SIG   6/28/2006 10:23:12 AM
Recoil should not be too bad. The only complaint I tend to hear from guys who shoot .357 Sig is the cost of the ammo and sometimes difficulty finding it (strangely enough, where I live, you can usually find really good defensive loads for .357 Sig in gun stores and pawn shops, but your basic going to the range sort of ammo is harder to locate). Changing the barrel on the Glock should not be a problem at all. Also note that Bar-Sto can install a fitted 9mm barrel as well allowing you to fire 9x19 in the same handgun as well (Glock does not recommend this as a bit of home gunsmithing, but the Bar-Sto is professionally fitted and such).
 
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Cato    RE:.357 SIG Question...Darth and Horsesoldier   6/28/2006 3:49:04 PM
What does .357 SIG bring to the table that good quality, +P 9x19, or .40S&W ammo dosen't. Not talking ****, I really don't know. Thanks, Cato
 
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buzzard    RE:.357 SIG Question...Darth and Horsesoldier   6/28/2006 3:59:48 PM
Personally I'd take a .40S&W over .357 or 9mm any day of the week. Bigger holes mean more lethality for pistols, and that's the simple truth. The advantage of .357 sig over 9mm is simply velocity. The .357 is a marketing name, since the bullets are of the same caliber as 9mm. I don't have the data in front of me, but as I recall it's about 200(maybe 300) fps more for the .357 Sig over a 9mm. Honestly I never much saw the point to the round in a world full of 38 super, and other fast 9mm cartridges which already existed. buzzard
 
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Cato    RE:.357 SIG Question...Buzzard   6/28/2006 5:19:14 PM
Buzzard, You've pretty much summed up the picture I had been developing. I guess that there is a reason that something like 60-70% of law enforcement agencies have switched to .40 S&W. IIRC SIG went with the nome de guerre ".357" because of the rather irrational American phobia of 9x19. Form your knowledge (obviously greater than mine) does the SIG Super 9mm (hehe) have issues with overpenetration? Do you know how this round compares with 10mm Auto in terms of recoil and penetration? Thanks, Cato
 
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DarthAmerica    Buzzard/Cato -- BZZZzzzt!!!   6/28/2006 5:35:49 PM
"Bigger holes mean more lethality for pistols, and that's the simple truth" Thats not really true and I'm talking from experience. You can shoot a man with a .45 ACP or even a .44 Mag and not kill him. Its all about shot placement. Of course you have to have a decent round within reason, say .380 and above. Once you have that in a package that makes precise delivery of those rounds achievable then you dont need a big bullet. Also bullet velocity is only one part of the equation. More important is bullet construction. Does the bullet expand properly and penetrate deep enough after passing through barriers is the proper question. At any velocity beyond that its just BS(Brochure Statistic) for pistol calibers.
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:.357 SIG Question...Darth and Horsesoldier - CATO   6/28/2006 5:38:02 PM
"What does .357 SIG bring to the table that good quality, +P 9x19, or .40S&W ammo dosen't. Not talking ****, I really don't know. Thanks," Against human targets from a pistol...NOTHING except less rounds, more cost and more recoil.
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:.357 SIG Question...Buzzard   6/28/2006 5:42:45 PM
IIRC SIG went with the nome de guerre ".357" because of the rather irrational American phobia of 9x19. Form your knowledge (obviously greater than mine) does the SIG Super 9mm (hehe) have issues with overpenetration? Do you know how this round compares with 10mm Auto in terms of recoil and penetration? 10mm is by far more powerful in both respects. Proper bullet can save you from overpenetration but it is a beast of a round. Like a .357 Mag but for autos.
 
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longrifle    RE:.357 SIG Question...Darth and Horsesoldier   6/28/2006 5:59:54 PM
The original idea was to make an auto cartridge that matched the ballistics of the legendary .357 Magnum with a 125 grain bullet, still considered to be one of the best manstoppers ever. Nothing's perfect, of course, but many feel that caliber and load came close. Many agencies have adopted the .357 SIG round, mostly state police and highway patrol agencies. The Texas DPS loves it, and that's saying a lot in a state where the 1911 first gained widespread acceptance for law enforcement. The Texas Rangers were among the first LE agencies to adopt the .45 ACP, you know, because "They don't make a .46 ACP." I've never fired the .357 SIG, and don't know much about it exept from heresay.
 
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buzzard    RE:Buzzard/Cato -- BZZZzzzt!!!   6/29/2006 10:28:56 AM
"Thats not really true and I'm talking from experience. You can shoot a man with a .45 ACP or even a .44 Mag and not kill him. Its all about shot placement. Of course you have to have a decent round within reason, say .380 and above. Once you have that in a package that makes precise delivery of those rounds achievable then you dont need a big bullet. Also bullet velocity is only one part of the equation. More important is bullet construction. Does the bullet expand properly and penetrate deep enough after passing through barriers is the proper question. At any velocity beyond that its just BS(Brochure Statistic) for pistol calibers." Honestly I don't see anything which contradicts my statement. Of course shot placement is key. You're not going to kill someone shooting off a pinky. Thanks for the expert tip there. However for a given placement of the shot, a bigger hole is more lethal. I don't see how you could dispute that. If you want my guidelines of how to choose a caliber- Pick the gun which suits your hand well and is controllable, in at least 380. If you can handle a .40 S&W or .45 ACP, I favor those since they are more lethal for a given target area. Most studies have indicated this, and it stands to reason. A pistol wounds pretty much only by tearing stuff up in its path. The bigger the path, the more damage. As for bullet construction, pretty much any common caliber has plenty of worthy self defense options avialable. Unless you try to be a cheapskate, you can easily get a solid choice in a JHP. Though you do bring up a good point which can be used against the .357 SIG. It is possible that they will overpenetrate given the high velocity. You'd have to go with an easy expanding bullet type. Maybe Speer Gold Dot or something. buzzard
 
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buzzard    RE:.357 SIG Question...Buzzard   6/29/2006 10:33:29 AM
Actually I haven't shot a .357 SIG yet. I say yet because a buddy of mine actually bought one a while back and hasn't gotten off his lazy duff and tried it yet. I have to keep badgering him about it, since I do want to try the caliber. I have tried a .38 Super which, I believe, is rougly comparable in performance. It was controllable. It's a bit less oomph than a .357 magnum. I imagine it could have overpenetration issues depending on the round used. I haven't seen any articles on it in gun magazines lately. It may well have fallen out of fashion already. Seems like the current popular round for hyping is the .45 GAP (Glock Auto Pistol), which is a shortened .45 cartrige designed for smaller carry pistols. buzzard
 
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DarthAmerica    Buzzard   6/29/2006 11:41:51 AM
Honestly I don't see anything which contradicts my statement. Of course shot placement is key. You're not going to kill someone shooting off a pinky. Thanks for the expert tip there. However for a given placement of the shot, a bigger hole is more lethal. I don't see how you could dispute that. I'm not trying to contradict you. But I've actually used this and even bigger rounds. I'm telling you that against a HUMAN TARGET the miniscule differences in performance between this or that bullet is such that its not going to matter how big the bullet is within reason as long as you have good shot placement. A bigger hole isnt always more lethal. Much more important than how big the hole is is how deep and how well the given bullet is able to penetrate bone, xfer energy, retain mass, reliably pass through barriers such as clothing AND give consistent performance ect. There are so many varibles and so little difference between "standard defensive pistol/revolver calibers" wound ballistics that which one you use doesnt really matter after certain calibers. In other words its statistically insignificant.
 
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longrifle    Oops!   6/29/2006 12:32:34 PM
I think I've opened a can of worms here, and all I really wanted to know was: 1)Have you shot it and what did you think of it? 2)Is a drop-in barrel safe to use on an older G22? You know, the first generation model without the fingergrooves and light rails.
 
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buzzard    RE:Oops!   6/29/2006 12:43:07 PM
"1)Have you shot it and what did you think of it?" Not yet, but if I can get my friend off his butt to let me, I will report. I have shot comparable autos though. They aren't much trouble. "2)Is a drop-in barrel safe to use on an older G22? You know, the first generation model without the fingergrooves and light rails." Safety wise you will be fine as the drop in barrel will certainly be able to handle the pressure. Guns these days are well overengineered. Now if you fire it a lot it might be rough on the frame, but I doubt it. You should be fine. buzzard
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Oops! - LR   6/29/2006 1:37:27 PM
No I think we have addressed the issues. As a P229 owner I can tell you its a cool round. More snappy recoil vs 9mm or .40 S&W but not at all uncontrollable. Also the sound of the weapon is distinctive. People next to you will peek over to see what you are shooting as it makes a nice BOOM! Accuracy from the Sig is awesome too! In regard to your Glock, 9mm will work perfectly fine from a safety point of view. I just always accompany such advice with reference to the manufacturer as a force of habit and to encourage safety. But the .357 Sig and .40 S&W generate higher chamber pressures and work the gun harder than 9mm. You might want to make sure the recoil spring is compatible though. Other than that your all good.
 
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