Do you carry concealed on the way to a gun fight? Most likely, you would not.

 

I don't see that, within reason, recoil is an objection for a defensive firearm which will most probably be used at arm's length distance.

 

As to using reduced loads, I remember some guys who ran an indoor public range talking about what they carried when they went to deposit the day's receipts at night. They carried Smith 686s but with reduced, sub magnum loads. The reason given was that they felt more comfortable at night with loads which didn't produce a substantial muzzle flash. They mostly weren't worried about giving their position away. Rather, they were worried the first round's muzzle flash would leave them unable to see in the dark (One of them - Troy was his name - had seen someone on point in Vietnam blind himself when he fired his sawed off, double barreled shotgun at night.). Perhaps this is a consideration.

 

I used to load my own .357s for bowling pin using 6.5 gr Win 231 with a lead 158 gr SWC or 160 gr RN, each in a .357 case. That would probably be a decent defense load in a commercial (For liability's sake) round.

 

 

Depends on who you are and why you are carrying. This thread is mostly focused on defensive concealed carry which implies hidden firearms. If I'm on my way to a gun fight though, I'd personally go with a Shotgun or Rifle assuming thats an option. The thing about concealed carry in the states is that you really walk a fine legal line when you present a weapon prior to a gunfight or obvious life and death situation.

You mentioned "Within Reason" with regard to recoil. Thats good and its a subjective issue. I define within reason to me reliably controlling the weapon and being able to consistently put rounds into the target under stress.


DA

As I understand it, being engaged in such a situation typically involves a lot of adrenaline. Therefore, an ability to take aimed shots is severely reduced as is general dexterity. You may be shaking too violently to hit anything farther than 6 feet.

Also, one has more strength than usual making you less liable to have the pistol fly out of your hand. And one does not necessarily sense pain until the adrenaline wears off. At that point, a sore hand is probably a blessing compared to the alternative.

 

So, and especially at a distance of 6 feet and less, the .357 mag revolver is at least as practical a defensive arm to use as is a nine auto.

 

Now if you are like Wild Bill Hickock and you can keep your cool in that kind of situation, I guess what I've said here doesn't apply.

 

Also, my point in the above post was that carrying concealed for protection anticipates a situation that has little resemblance to shooting plates in a match at a range, putting holes in paper or even being in a gun fight. But there are reasons why you might not want to carry magnum loads.

I agree that close quarter scenarios A-E are most likely the type of encounter in which you would need a concealed weapon (there is a theory that you should first try with a less lethal defensive option but I am not entirely sure about that – I do carry a medium size Spyderco Clipit all the time – not so much for self defense though). In all of these situations a one-hand weapon is essential. Other hand will likely be occupied with attempts to gain some distance between you and assailant. I used to carry an US made PPK (mine vas .32 auto, I’m not sure about Bond’s) which I ditched for reliability issues. I got a HK P2000 which is the ONLY pistol with which I personally NEVER witnessed a stoppage of any kind (believe me I tried more than a few – none of the Kahrs though). Anyway the pistol proved too heavy ( 1,5 lb + 13 rounds of 9 mm) for permanent carry and I decided on the S&W. I have some serious doubts on .357 Mags being over-penetrating with the FMJ bullets I must use with defensive carry for legal reasons.   

Also, my point in the above post was that carrying concealed for protection anticipates a situation that has little resemblance to shooting plates in a match at a range, putting holes in paper or even being in a gun fight. But there are reasons why you might not want to carry magnum loads.

 

Bark,

 

There are a couple of MFG (Speer/Gold Dot for one) who sell a hybrid FMJ that has a fully jacketed tip with a bonded core that allows some expansion. They resolve the "must carry fmj's" requirement by some backward thinking LE departments and probably the military.

 

I don't think that those are optimal for this pistol but you may find that to be a good solution to your mentioned legal requirment.

 

The 340PD is a slick pistol that I have been carrying for over a year. The reason I like it so much is that it is very flexible in the way you can employ it. The .357/.38+p aspect allows you to carry a very powerful pistol in circumstances that might require it (such as in the back country where black bears and mountain lions might be lurking) and down load it with "short barrell magnums or +P.38 loads for more conventional concealed carry. Kramer Leather (kramerleather.com) makes a real good pocket holster for the hammerless  J frame that just disappears in your slacks/Dockers front pocket. Uncle Mikes makes a less expensive sock type holster that I use when wearing tight jeans. Both are reasonably easy to draw with practice.

 

My experience in shooting over 1000 rounds through mine is that the full house magnum 158gr type load is a two handed affair to control, for me. Where shooting Federal Low recoil loads (still pretty hot for this pistol) or the Gold Dot Short Barrel .357's (my favorite daily carry) can be employed with weak hand/strong single hand shooting. Practice is always important with a hand gun but is reallllly critical with this pistol. Given that, this pistol is well made and has great inherit accuracy. As I mentioned in a earlier post, I shot a coyote with mine while working on fences on one of our leases. The coyote jumped up and ran 35 yards up the hill and stood staring at me. I pulled Mr.S&W out of my front pocket and drilled him through the chest. I just held and squeezed as if I was holding a target pistol.

 

I think you made a good purchase Bark

 

Check Six

 

Rocky

 

 

Bark, I don't know if I have ever heard of a pistol cartridge over penetrating a bad guy and then going on to injure a innocent 3rd party.

Know your target and beyond is always a rule with all guns but I don't know that I would make a defense weapon purchase based upon that criteria...

 

Check Six

 

Rocky

Hey, Darth,

     I've got a couple of the smaller Kahrs (one with the stainless slide and one with the DLC finish), and more versions of the Centennial than I can count.  But one of the Smiths is the 340PD with the Scandium/titanium/.357 capability, and I use it sometimes on personal protection assignments when I'm wearing a tux (It's too tailored to handle anything any bigger, and the "organic" shape of a small revolver sometimes sticks out less than the flat blockiness of even a small semi-auto.).  I'm both a licensed cop and a security officer in Texas, by the way; and I do know my way around firearms after years of competition, 'smithing, collecting, etc.  And I'm sorry about the slow response, but I just happened upon this website tonight for the first time.

     As far as ammo goes with the super-light Smith, I've found that MagSafe's +P .38 Spl. combined with Eagle's Secret Service grips with a couple of finger grooves and checkering give me a terrific hold for initial and follow-up shots.  As for the revolver's heavy trigger, I'm my own 'smith, and I've fixed that by making it both smoother and a little bit lighter.  But with such a light gun and relatively heavy recoil, I find that a heavier trigger helps to encourage a firm grip on any handgun from the get-go.

   Anyhow, those MagSafes (Or Glasers, if you prefer that brand and its choice of Blues or Silvers.) in the caliber I mentioned have far greater stopping power than almost any .357 Magnum without the kick, more stopping power than any traditional .38 Spl., they're plenty accurate for the intended use, and--being a recoil-avoider to the core--I find that they don't punish me any more than +P, much less the +P+ SXTs, 9mm ammo out of the mini-Kahrs.

     Just thought I'd give you my thoughts, for what they're worth.

 

Your comments are appreciated. Welcome to the boards. I'll have to try these loads when I get stateside. Sometimes I worry about having enough penetration to deal with light barriers such as windows, car doors and the like. I've actually encountered a situation like that before but with a .45 ACP through a door and stain glass window. The rounds were either 165 gr or 185 gr Federal Hydrashoks(I can't remember the exact weight). It worked pretty well.

 

 

-DA

I've had my 340PD as my primary concealed carry gun for some 4 years now and I have run over 2,000 rounds through it, 70% .38 special and 30% a mix of various .357 magnums. Problems have been minimal for this gun especially given the near continuous service it has provided me whether in the urban jungle or in the backwoods of Colorado. I've noticed a little scoring on the cut shield something that Norm warned about in his post back in 2006 or so. It isn't bad but I will continue to watch it. Other than that, my pistol is very tight and if anything the trigger pull has smoothed nicely through regular practice.

 

The Smith "J" frame continues to be a legend in self defense firearms and the 340PD is the top of that evolution in my opinion. Not adequate for a police officer's primary weapon but certainly acceptable for off duty carry, civilian CCW, or home defense. 

 

Check Six

 

Rocky