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Subject: PM9 vs S&W 340PD
DarthAmerica    6/6/2006 2:01:59 AM
I've been waiting a while to post on this but I wanted to be in possession of both weapons to make a fair comparison. This will be a bit brief and to the point summary of the pros and cons of these two weapons in the concealed carry role. So without futher delay...



PM9-



Pros

Very concealable(especially width)

Very accurate even out to 25 meters

Very controllable in rapid fire

Sweet trigger

Adequate bullet for combat shooting


Cons

If you carry a loose magazine in a pocket a round or two may work its way out potentially leaving you one or two rounds short.

Light trigger pull and no safety makes a holster an absolute must no matter how this weapon is carried.

Short grips make for slightly awkward ergonomics.

Slower draw compared to S&W 340PD

Not heavy by any means but a notable difference compared to the S&W340 PD



I cant say enough good things about this weapon. I can hide it anywhere and hit anything I can see out to 25 meters. This auto is one of the best if not the best concealed carry weapon you could get.


S&W 340PD-



Pros

Very concealable

Very powerful bullet

Very reliable

Quick to draw from any position

So lite you would forget you had it on you.

Cons

Ferocious recoil

Needs a lighter trigger pull

Due to the fact that its a revolver. the cylinder will make it a bit wider profile compared to the PM9.



I cant emphasize the recoil enough. Actually made my shooting had bleed! Getting a good accurate rapid follow up shot would be a challenge without a lot of practice. Painful is an understatement. This is definately not a gun for the faint at heart, pain sensitive or those who arent willing to invest the time, pain and suffering required to master it. But if you did, this is the ultimate fight stopper. And due to its weight, you could carry it in almost any type of clothing heavier than swim wear.




Conclussion

I would have to give the nod to the Kahr. Overall its the more practical of the two guns. The 340PD is a bit much for most people. I hope I'm not being misunderstood. I say that because I know the recoil would turn most off to practice which is a necessity if you plan to use it to its full potential. For me the Karh would fit most of my concealed carry requirements. In the very few cases where it wouldnt due to weight. I would use the 340PD.
 
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buzzard    RE:PM9 vs S&W 340PD   6/6/2006 11:51:34 AM
What is the caliber on the Kahr? 9mm? If so, couldn't you downgrade the ammo on the S&W to .38 Special +P to reduce the recoil pain, but maintain comparable stopping power to the 9mm? A former roomate of mine used to carry a snubby Taurus .357, but loaded it with +P 38s for carry purposes since the recoil was as you describe. buzzard
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:PM9 vs S&W 340PD   6/6/2006 1:45:25 PM
I've considered the possibility of using .38 Special instead of .357 Magnum rounds. Now I can fully appreciate why some people have done that. But in that case I would prefer to use the Kahr. The 9mm +p+ loads I use are superior to the .38 +p in terms of lethality and the ammo is compatible with a lot of my other weapons. Still though the weight of the S&W gives it certain advantages that keep it viable even if its a monster to shoot. One thing I'm not looking forward to is more training because as a practice I use the same ammo on the range as I would in normal use. So that means a lot more punishing .357 Mag sessions if I intend to keep my routine. I see this weapon as almost entirely defensive against people and possibly dogs within 3 to 7 meters so if at all possible I'd like to launch the most powerful rounds as I can stand with the goal of being able to put at least 2 rounds on target in rapid succession. The bullet needs to reliably be able to penetrate auto glass, car doors, residential doors, forearms and then heavy clothing and still produce an almost immediate incapacitating/lethal wound on persons who may also be under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Thats a lot to ask of any "typical" pistol/revolver round IMO and even more so from such a short barrel. .357 Mag is a pretty sure bet though. Also of prime importance was the quickness of drawing the weapon from a concealed carry possition. The S&W is superior in that respect to me. But the recoil...sigh...lol. Just to feel the difference I'll fire some .38 Specials today. link
 
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Cato    RE:PM9 vs S&W 340PD...DA   6/6/2006 3:16:22 PM
How does your Kahr handle the +P+ ammo? I like the 9x19 for a CCW. Pistols generally suck at making people dead, from what I've seen (granted the pistoleros in my AO tend to be sh!tty marksmen). It seems that being able to make accurate, rapid follow up shots would be more valuable than maybe hitting the dude with the hand cannon once. I would go for the Kahr. Cato
 
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tianjinrob    RE:PM9 vs S&W 340PD...DA   6/6/2006 4:21:15 PM
Maybe I'm wrong, and feel free to say so, but I say having a clip with more ammo in a close quarters situation is a better bet, as the first few rapid succession shots may not be exactly on target. Reloading a revolver, or having a few extra shots in that situation? Personally, I take the extra shots, but only because I don't trust the situation to always go as well as on-the-range senarios. I prefer to have a couple of extra shots for the angry friends that happen upon their friend's demise... and me trying to start my car! ;) What you guys think? TJrob
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:PM9 vs S&W 340PD...DA   6/6/2006 4:35:53 PM
Bullets for self-defense are kind of like stocking a bar when you're expecting company -- I'd rather have too much than too little. My traditional approach has always been one mag in the gun, a second one elsewhere on my person, for around 30 rounds carried +/- a couple rounds depending on the pistol. Since switching to carrying a 1911, I do two back up mags instead of one, for a total of 27+1 (9mm 1911). I suspect the gunfight will be long over or I'll be long dead before I would ever get started on a third 1911 magazine but, again, better to have it and not need it, etc.
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:PM9 vs S&W 340PD...CATO   6/6/2006 4:47:33 PM
The Kahr is great will anything I have used so far and accurate as hell. Even the +p+ ammo. I agree with you about pistols and making dead people. The S&W is really filling a very limited role for me compared to the Kahr.
 
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buzzard    RE:PM9 vs S&W 340PD...CATO   6/6/2006 5:32:54 PM
Back when I had a carry permit, I'd go with a .45 ACP and 2 spare mags for around 22 rounds. I kinda favor the .45 as a carry round, but that's a religous matter. :) buzzard
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:PM9 vs S&W 340PD...Horsesoldier   6/6/2006 5:37:45 PM
"Bullets for self-defense are kind of like stocking a bar when you're expecting company -- I'd rather have too much than too little. My traditional approach has always been one mag in the gun, a second one elsewhere on my person, for around 30 rounds carried +/- a couple rounds depending on the pistol. Since switching to carrying a 1911, I do two back up mags instead of one, for a total of 27+1 (9mm 1911). I suspect the gunfight will be long over or I'll be long dead before I would ever get started on a third 1911 magazine but, again, better to have it and not need it, etc." I respect your views but what I have found is this. Most gunfights almost never last long enough to require a reload or even more than 3 or so rounds. So now I just go with an extra mag or speed loader at most.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:PM9 vs S&W 340PD...Horsesoldier   6/6/2006 8:18:35 PM
I think there's some strong statistical research that would agree with you -- I seem to recall something in excess of 90% of self-defense shootings involve less than four rounds fired or something like that. On the other hand, I can carry three 1911 mags as easily as I could ever carry two double-stack mags, so why not do so? I'd hate to be dead because my personal self-defense shooting event did not fall into the 95% confidence interval for someone's statistical research . . .
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:PM9 vs S&W 340PD...Horsesoldier   6/6/2006 9:35:52 PM
In the role I am discussing, Concealed Carry , all those extra mags make too much clickety clack unless you put them in a belt holder which almost defeats the point in all but the coldest climates IME. I have found that its not too difficult to get away with a single extra mag in the pocket. But any more and its too much work to be stealthy. Another thing I found out is that most shootings are unplanned. They are usually acts of desperation and/or emotion. Most people acting under such a situation may have a gun, knife or blunt weapon. But they almost never have extra ammo on their person due to the same reasons of concealability and haste. Adding insult to injury they arent usually very well trained either. Even if they have a hi-CAP semi-auto its the rage driven spray and pray that rarely hits the intended target. Throw in the dynamic of shooting back at them and a sustained gunfight requiring reloads is almost an oddity. Now I could see the issue of multiple attackers making reloading a possibility. But what I have found if that most people like what I described above will run in pure terror as soon as you attempt to defend yourself. Especially if you hit one of their party. Good personal SA will almost totally negate the probability of such attacks and is more effective than firearms. Yes there are some scenarios where you could face the remote possibility of a trained attacker(s). But such individuals most often use ambush/suprise such that a lone individual has virtually no chance of a successful defence(i.e. shooting you from behind/blind spot or using overwhelming firepower). A successful defence against this is beyond the scope of personal defense.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:PM9 vs S&W 340PD...Horsesoldier   6/6/2006 10:15:23 PM
To each their own. I'll leave it at that since I agree with you on some points and very much disagree with you on others (carrying two spare 1911 mags has never been an issue for me at all, in terms of irritation, detectability, whatever).
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:PM9 vs S&W 340PD...Horsesoldier   6/6/2006 10:25:27 PM
No problem. Its all personal preference...;)
 
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smitty237    RE:PM9 vs S&W 340PD...Horsesoldier   6/7/2006 10:07:58 PM
I own a Taurus 85 with a titanium frame, which is almost identical to the Smith you described. I'll agree with one thing, recoil is brutal. It definitely requires a good grip and shooting stance. I carry my Taurus while on duty as a back up gun. It is concealed under my uniform shirt and secured with a bulletproof vest holster. The gun is so light that the gun has fallen out of the holster and into my shirt without me realizing it. I also like to carry my Taurus off duty because it is so light and easy to conceal. There is no noticeable "lump" like you see with a bigger gun like a Glock or 1911. My other off duty gun is a Glock 27 in .40 caliber. It is bigger and heavier, but holds twice as much ammo. As always, its a trade off. The 9mm Kahr is certainly an adequate gun. The 9mm will do just fine, as long as you hit the target and have good shot placement. For plain clothes assignments I would recommend the Kahr, but if you need a back up gun or gun that can be easily carried and concealed in light clothing, I would recommend the Taurus or Smith without hesitation.
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:PM9 vs S&W 340PD...Smitty   6/7/2006 10:22:26 PM
The 9mm(Kahr) will do just fine, as long as you hit the target and have good shot placement. For plain clothes assignments I would recommend the Kahr, but if you need a back up gun or gun that can be easily carried and concealed in light clothing, I would recommend the Taurus or Smith(340PD) without hesitation. That just about sums up my situation.
 
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Zerbrechen    RE:PM9 vs S&W 340PD...Smitty   6/7/2006 11:40:26 PM
Gotta throw in my 2 Lincolns in also. I think that for most cops, off-duty carry would naturally include extra mags, along with a set of cuffs, etc. Citizens carrying a weapon are probably more concerned with how much extras to carry with the gun. I have a tendancy to agree with Horse Soldier about ammo supply. When I carried a Colt Double Eagle on duty, I had a mag in the gun, four in a pouch, and five more in a bag in the squad. To quote a John Wayne movie "I don't want to get killed for lack of shootin' back."
 
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