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Subject: Good riddance M-16
PowerPointRanger    9/17/2005 1:21:39 PM
It's interesting the while the M-14 has its fans even dacades after its retirement, the pending retirement of the M-16 has generated a reaction more like "How soon?" I never much liked it myself. It was high-maintenance and prone to jam at the worst times. It was also too long and too heavy. It was the under-achieving prima-donna of assault weapons. Plus the current version doesn't come with full auto (unless you know how to modify it).
 
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S-2    RE:Yimmy & Shek, Albany Rifles & Horsesoldier   10/19/2005 11:39:42 AM
Yimmy, I'm sorry. My comment to you wasn't necessary, and far too personal. Besides, these guys are doing fine. I can only make worse what they've already provided for you with crystalline clarity. Great explanations on our forced entry TTPs, and their rationale, wouldn't you agree? I simply became frustrated with your intransigent stubbornness. I hope you understand. Again, my apologies. (:-)
 
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Yimmy    RE:Yimmy & Shek, Albany Rifles & Horsesoldier   10/19/2005 12:11:20 PM
"I simply became frustrated with your intransigent stubbornness" Hey, thats one of my best qualities!
 
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S-2    RE:Yimmy    10/19/2005 12:46:34 PM
Childish frustration is one of my worst, so I played right into your hands. I'm cool. I hope that you're also. I've caught myself being a sniveling, snide twit yesterday with both Dropbear and you. I hate it from others, and I sure don't like myself much when I'm the same way. Damn shame that I'm still learning effective interpersonal communication skills at fifty. Then again, perhaps not.
 
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towgunner1960    RE:Double Tap   10/19/2005 5:40:01 PM
I've served in the army infantry between 77-80 and have never heard the term "double tap" used. However as a police officer we were always trained to "double tap". The reason is that a bullet doesn't have a 100% chance of a kill with one shot, especially with pistol calibers, the average is something like 50-75%. If you put two com, this gives you 100-150% chance of a kill.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:Yimmy & Shek   10/19/2005 7:00:20 PM
>>I haven't heard this before. How is a double tap synonymous with a war crime? Maybe it's just semantics, as I'm sure I'm out of touch with all the current Army jargon. What I was always taught, and have always taught, is that a "controlled pair" consists of two aimed rounds each fired in rapid succession. A "double tap" is two rounds fired in quick succession with a flash sight picture for the first round only. << That's also the terminology taught where I'm presently assigned.
 
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ChdNorm    RE:Double Tap   10/19/2005 9:23:55 PM
"Chdnorm, I am RLC. That said, I have been taught by 16th AA instructors in FIBUA briefly." I'm not all that up on the British Army. What's the RLC? The 16th AA is yall's Air Assualt Brigade (or is it Division?) though, right?
 
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ChdNorm    RE:Yimmy & Shek   10/19/2005 9:28:32 PM
"As far as double tap, the context that I've always heard it used is when assaulting across an OBJ, and some will teach "put two rounds into them before you pass them, because it's against the rules to do it when you come back." This isn't necessarily wrong, but the target does need to pose a threat, which is a decision that belongs to the shooter. Therefore, the reason I tried to eliminate it is because I felt that it created a sense that it was always okay to "double tap," which isn't the case. My wording came off too strong in this case." Shek I see the difference now. I think our different usage of the same term just comes from different times and places (ie, I'm out of date). I had no idea you probably thought I was a war criminal when I've mentioned double taps in previous posts!
 
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Yimmy    RE:Yimmy & Shek   10/19/2005 9:30:01 PM
RLC = Royal Logistics Corps
 
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shek    RE:Yimmy & Shek   10/19/2005 9:37:59 PM
Yimmy, I wasn't clear on my phrasing earlier - the two man hi/lo entry technique was still the US Army standard during Somalia, although units quickly transitioned to the current battle drill when they were taught it by the Ranger units that were conducting ops there. Leading with a fragmentation grenade was the Army standard at the time if there weren't combatants, but the frail walls and blast effects into the hallway soon limited this practice. However, I take issue with your attempts to distinguish room clearing techniques in different areas. The battle drill should be the same wherever you use it; what will be different is the level of force required, and that is based off of the presence of combatants and non-combatants, which will affect your decisions for entry point and entry technique, but won't affect the actually clearing battle drill. Once in the room, the decision to use lethal force is based on individual soldiers making decisions whether a person presents a lethal threat, at which point controlled pairs are used until the target no longer presents a threat. A combatant in a house in Northern Ireland can kill a clearing team member just as easily as a combatant can kill in Fallujah, etc.
 
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dobrodan    RE:Double Tap   10/22/2005 10:36:37 AM
Towgunner: 2x50% gives 75% chance of scoring a kill 2x75% gives 93.75% chance of scoring a kill 3x75% gives 98.44% chance of scoring a kill. You can never be more than 100% sure...
 
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