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Subject: What is the U.S.A.'s next basic infantry rifle?
The Warrior    8/21/2005 11:45:38 PM
I head something about the XM8, but I don't know what that is, if you know what the next rifle is, please tell me, and what will be better about this rifle.
 
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psyclops    RE:What is the U.S.A.'s next basic infantry rifle?   10/18/2005 11:12:40 AM
Any truth to the rumors I've heard about barrel bend on the M-16/M-4 from all the gizmos attached to it? If so, it'd be nice to have a rifle designed from the outset to incorporate all the red dot sights, flashlights, laser designators, and whozits that get stuck on these days. I've also heard that the Pentagon is seriously considering switching to 6.5 or 6.8mm because the crazies don't go down with one or two 5.56 hits. More wishful thinking, or have any of you heard something solid on this?
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:What is the U.S.A.'s next basic infantry rifle?   10/18/2005 2:58:17 PM
>>Any truth to the rumors I've heard about barrel bend on the M-16/M-4 from all the gizmos attached to it? << Myth. >>I've also heard that the Pentagon is seriously considering switching to 6.5 or 6.8mm because the crazies don't go down with one or two 5.56 hits. More wishful thinking, or have any of you heard something solid on this? << SOCOM considered it, and some units may still be playing with it, but USASOC dropped any immediate plans to replace 5.56mm with 6.8mm. So far as I know, 6.5mm never had any official momentum, but some units may be trialling Grendel uppers -- one of the nice things about an M4 or M16 being that you can put on anything from 5.45mm to .50 cal these days onto an existing lower . . .
 
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Schackleford    RE:What is the U.S.A.'s next basic infantry rifle?   10/19/2005 3:45:20 AM
"Any truth to the rumors I've heard about barrel bend on the M-16/M-4 from all the gizmos attached to it? " Ridiculous. How can a steel barrel bend because of a few plastic gizmoes?
 
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AussieEngineer    RE:What is the U.S.A.'s next basic infantry rifle?   10/19/2005 7:32:34 AM
maybe if the barrel was getting a bit hot?
 
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Schackleford    RE:What is the U.S.A.'s next basic infantry rifle?   10/26/2005 2:02:59 PM
To move back to the original question: From what I have been able to piece together, the Pentagon has been forced to reopen the XM8 competition. The following possibilities are being considered: 1. XM8 (still has a score of minor problems to work out) 2. Heckler & Koch HK416 (strong contestant, a H&K G36 in disguise as a M16) 3. FN SCAR (Already won the SOCOM contract) 4. Robinson Arms XCR (Little known weapon) 5. Steyr AUG A3 (A die-hard rumor)
 
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longrifle    RE:What is the U.S.A.'s next basic infantry rifle?   11/2/2005 2:24:55 AM
>>I've also heard that the Pentagon is seriously considering switching to 6.5 or 6.8mm because the crazies don't go down with one or two 5.56 hits.<< I doubt it will happen any time soon but I wish they would. I'm not worshipping at the shrine of the 7.62 but I think we've gone to far in the other direction. The 6.8mm is a short .270, and that seems like a reasonable compromise. Compromise doesn't have to have negative connotations either, it can be thought of as incorporating some of the strengths of either extreme. Much like the .40 S&W pistol round for law enforcement has some of the benifits of both 9MM and .45ACP.
 
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Schackleford    RE:What is the U.S.A.'s next basic infantry rifle?   11/3/2005 2:24:13 PM
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/articles/20051103.aspx Well, that appears to be the end of the XM8. What a shame, even though I do believe that the US Armed forces would be much better of purchasing a new batch of M249 SAWs and finding a .45 pistol to replace the M9 before looking into a new assault rifle. The XM8 is a fine weapon, but it is does not offer so significant advantages over the M16/M4 that it justifies replacing a so firmly entrenched weapon platform as the M16/M4.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:What is the U.S.A.'s next basic infantry rifle?   11/3/2005 3:26:31 PM
>>Well, that appears to be the end of the XM8. What a shame, even though I do believe that the US Armed forces would be much better of purchasing a new batch of M249 SAWs and finding a .45 pistol to replace the M9 before looking into a new assault rifle.<< Both are currently ongoing. The safe money on the .45 appears to be the H&K USP -- H&K seem to be popular with the Pentagon these days, the USP has an externally visible manual safety, and it's a very good pistol (even if the Mk 23 is regarded as overly huge by most). >>The XM8 is a fine weapon, but it is does not offer so significant advantages over the M16/M4 that it justifies replacing a so firmly entrenched weapon platform as the M16/M4.<< Exactly. Last time they had an open competition to replace the then-current M16A2 the requirement was a 100% improvement in performance, which the various ACR designs, to include the G11 failed to meet. This time the only reason that the XM8 would have made any sense as an improvement over the M16/M4 family would have been if it was part of a larger procurement involving the OICW, since you'd then have commonality of parts, etc. When OICW went away, or at least went out into the 2015-2020 timeframe or whatever its current status is, then XM8 stopped making any real financial sense at all.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:What is the U.S.A.'s next basic infantry rifle?   11/3/2005 3:59:54 PM
>>From what I have been able to piece together, the Pentagon has been forced to reopen the XM8 competition. The following possibilities are being considered: 1. XM8 (still has a score of minor problems to work out) 2. Heckler & Koch HK416 (strong contestant, a H&K G36 in disguise as a M16)<< The 416 is better than that, really -- it is just another upper receiver you can retrofit onto any M16 or M4. They are already on issue with some units in SOCOM and have, apparently, been very well received thus far. >>3. FN SCAR (Already won the SOCOM contract)<< I don't know that the economics justify procuring the weapon Army-wide. >>4. Robinson Arms XCR (Little known weapon)<< It was in the SCAR competition, but I'd not heard it was a contended to replace the M16 family. >>5. Steyr AUG A3 (A die-hard rumor)<< I'll not hold my breath on that particular possibility.
 
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Nichevo    RE:What is the U.S.A.'s next basic infantry rifle?   11/4/2005 2:47:19 AM
People keep invoking the .25 Grendel. IIRC, the article on the cartidge selection process indicated that the 6.8mm was chosen, or designed, in part at least for its physical format. In other words, it feeds better than the other rounds they tested. That is a big deal, no? So marginal 6.5-6.8mm ballistics issues are not the whole point. I certainly think the 6.8mm offers a great improvement over the 5.56. And we don't have those heaps of shells left over anymore to justify readoption of the 7.62mm, do we? Meanwhile ISTM something creative must be done with bullet design. How about flat-nosed bullets, lead bullets, FMJ hollowpoints?
 
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