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Subject: F-15's vs. Su-30's
Phoenix Rising    6/8/2002 10:54:29 PM
I noticed the recent post on SP about how the Su-30 proved superior to the F-15 in previously classified USAF simulations. I can't get onto the Fighters/Bombers/Recon board for some reason (never been able to), so I'll bring it over here. Isn't this sort of to be expected, though? The F-15 is 1972 vintage. The Su-30 came out in 1989. I wouldn't expect a Soviet fighter of the same year to stand up to one of ours, but technology changes a lot if you look in 15+ year intervals. In addition, the total Russian inventory of Su-30's isn't that high, and I can't imagine they're shelling out a whole lot to increase their inventory at the moment. All that notwithstanding, does anyone know a decent place to find statistics for the capabilities of the Alamo, Adler, and Archer missiles? How likely is it that an F-15 could dodge one of these things? Also, SP said that the Su-30 is currently being flown by China and India ... does anyone know how many of these are currently in the Chinese and Indian inventories? --Phoenix Rising
 
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pfd    RE:F-15's vs. Su-30's   6/9/2002 3:57:12 AM
It seems that our airframes-(in the new global order) are kind of OK, Our missles bite. Slap on some world class AA rockets and we are back in business. Play Harpoon 3 a few times and see the results. Stand off seems supreme-Top Gun is when it fails.
 
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tomanbeg@hotmail.com    RE:F-15's vs. Su-30's   6/13/2002 9:18:32 PM
Stand-off only works when one side has electronic superiority. When neither side can emmit for fear of sudden death, then the engagement range will be inside visual range. It doesn't matter if your missile has a 100 km range and you opponent has a 50 km range if you have to be within 10 km's to ID and engage. The US Navy has been dealing with ECOM conditions and ECM and ECCM warfare since WW2. One thing is for sure, fire and forget is tough when your target is highly mobile. Without terminal guidance, that long range missile is just another miss. T.
 
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Jonathan Jin    RE:F-15's vs. Su-30's   8/2/2002 6:45:03 AM
About your inquiries on russian missiles: there is a excellent site called Federation of American Scientists, there adress , look for "conventional weapons" on the left hand side of there home page and go to "rest of the world aircraft/airforce equipments.It is the most complete quide on weapon systems I know so far
 
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Jonathan Jin    RE:F-15's vs. Su-30's   8/2/2002 6:45:31 AM
About your inquiries on russian missiles: there is a excellent site called Federation of American Scientists, there adress , look for "conventional weapons" on the left hand side of there home page and go to "rest of the world aircraft/airforce equipments.It is the most complete quide on weapon systems I know so far
 
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Jonathan Jin    RE:F-15's vs. Su-30's   8/2/2002 6:56:44 AM
According to my sources, in NATO stimulations F-15 acheived a 1.3 kill ratio against Su-35. Note that although it does prove the inferiority of F-15 against Russian Su fighters, Su-35 is superior to Su-30s. In a BvR duel, F-15 will have a fifty-fifty against Su-30. If USAF F-15s can be armed with AIM-9X in time, they can even have equal footing in a dogfight, since that it is very difficult to dodge a short-range missile nowadays, given the agility of those new AAMs.About the number of fighters the Chinese have: the Chinese have both Su-27s and Su-30s. I do not know how many, but I know that they are buying an additonal 30 Su-30s, armed with anti-ship missiles to attack US carriers, if there should be a war between US and PROC.
 
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naktio    RE:F-15's vs. Su-30's   8/2/2002 9:52:40 AM
has nearly everything
 
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Max    RE:F-15's vs. Su-30's   8/22/2002 7:04:36 PM
That simulation you mention is based on the standpoint that all other factors are equel while in a one on one fight. Training, comand and control, maintenence levels, fuel supply and a large list of other factors can influence the outcome in the real world. Traditionaly those factors have always favored the American side and until another airforce can nuetralise the American advantages the F-15 will be able to defeat the Su-30. I'd be willing to bet that the best Russian fighter in the world flown by an inept third world air force would be shot down by an old F-4 Phantom flown by an Air Reservist.
 
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macawman    RE:F-15's vs. Su-30's   8/28/2002 12:28:21 AM
That server is hosed for surface ships and for aircraft. I do not think the one on one plane specifications of same generation aircraft are significant. It is the force team vs force team that is important. Example: Israeli Air Force vs Syrian Air Force in 73, the score was 87 Syrian to 0 Israeli kills in air to air combat. The reason was Israeli superior C3I which their Hawkeye radar system gave them. With this situational awareness, the Syrians did not have a chance, no matter what they were flying, as they were taking off from their air bases.
 
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Tony Williams    RE:F-15's vs. Su-30's   8/29/2002 8:40:08 AM
The US simulations showed that the Su with thrust vectoring would beat the F-15C EVERY TIME (source, Military Technology), mainly because of the capabilities of the Russian R-73 missile. Once the AIM-9X is in use, this should level out. Incidentally, the same source indicates that in mock combats between US and Israeli planes, the Israelis have won 220 out of 240 combats. Again, the reason is the capability of the Israeli dogfight missiles. The USA has been concentrating on long-range AAMs and neglected the short-range ones until recently, so before the AIM-9X they were WAY behind. Tony Williams Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk Military gun and ammunition discussion forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/
 
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macawman    RE:F-15's vs. Su-30's   9/4/2002 4:53:57 AM
Correction: That Force on Force air conflict with the 86 to 0 kill ratio was the "82" Beka Valley conflict and not the 73 War. Israel did lose an aircraft to a SA-6 missile in the Beka Valley.
 
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