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Subject: g11 ammo
Dracnor    6/13/2004 9:42:57 PM
i got this idea a few days ago about the g11

with the great recoil system it is supposed to be capable of landing 3 rounds in the same hole on one burst, so this got me thinking about what if somebody had on kevlar

you could load the clip in a pattern that goes AP - JHP - JHP so when the first bulles hits the guy it busts a hole in the kevlar so the hollow points can go through without a problem and really do some damage to the guy

its a loose theory and i know there isnt much info about the g11 but i am curious as to what you guy think because you probaly know alot more than me when it comes to this kind of stuff, so if you can think of any major problems with it i would like to know
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:g11 ammo   6/14/2004 10:04:19 AM
>>with the great recoil system it is supposed to be capable of landing 3 rounds in the same hole on one burst, so this got me thinking about what if somebody had on kevlar<< G11 on burst fired at a high RPM so that all three rounds were out of the weapon before felt-recoil effected the firer's aim. ROF was not so high, nor natural dispersion sufficiently acoed for, to put three rounds into one entry point, to the best of my knowledge.
 
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Kozzy    RE:g11 ammo   6/14/2004 10:55:16 AM
I was thinking the design could be re tried with Metal Storm technology. 3 rounds at 30,000 rpm would hit the same place.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:g11 ammo   6/14/2004 11:09:47 AM
True -- Metal Storm could, possibly . . .
 
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eon    RE:g11 and MetalStorm   6/16/2004 10:59:44 AM
Both systems, AFAIK, generate consistent grouping of about 5cm at 100m for three-shot burst, i.e. even MetalStorm can't put two successive bullets into the same hole. I seriously doubt that even a railgun could do it. There are simply to many variables, especially once the round leaves the muzzle. For a hard kill on an armored target, i'm afraid we'll have to keep doing it the hard way..
 
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WinsettZ    RE:g11 and MetalStorm   6/16/2004 3:08:47 PM
With metalstorm, some bullets are closer to the end of the barrel then others: these will have less acceleration and will be less accurate then following bullets which will be increasingly accurate as they have more barrel space to be propelled/spun when vacated by earlier bullets. To return to topic: What if the G11 rifleman returns to single-shot for some reason and disrupts the sequence? So the AP bullet is gone and now two JHPs are next, then those are fired followed by another AP bullet? It might work as long as the AP bullet will always be first-not always a guarantee with full auto (unless you're somehow making sure that you only fire bursts of fire that are multiples of three)
 
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Curtagrinder    RE:g11 and MetalStorm   6/23/2004 3:53:50 PM
The burst capability of G11 was designed to increase hit probablilty, counting on the fact that there would be significant dispersion at range, up to several feet. the advantage of the burst system over say, M16's 3 round burst is that this dispersion is still narrow enough to be useful. Obviously, hitting with two or even three rounds would impove your terminal effects, but this was never the goal. The US army toyed with duplex and triplex loadings during the 60's for the same reason, hit probablilty. It was mostly a dead end.
 
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Who dares wins    one shot is all you need   7/20/2004 10:40:31 PM
being that the G11 is of 4.7mm (.185inch)calibre, and its muzzle velocity exceeding 3000fps (3051fps to be precise [930 metres/sec])it is not necessary for a three round burst function to penetrate kevlar body armour. this is due to the above normal "spin" imparted on the projectile by the 155mm/twist rifling and the fact that the round is only 4.7 mm. it has been proven that the caseless ammunititon of the g11 can easily penetrate a steel helmet at a range of 600 metres (1969 feet). kevlar can much easier stop a larger calibre bullet e.g. 9mm or .45" than a smaller calibre round (especially one whos' muzzle velocity exceeds most modern day sniper rifles). this is because kevlar (as i'm sure you probably all know) works on the principal of dispersing the energy (in this case forward inertia) from the point of impact over a wide area. therefore is is much harder to spread the pressure of a smaller round than it is to do the same with that of a larger round. kevlar has a range of protectability, it can only stop a round within a certain calibre limit. so there is a fact worth pondering over, conserve bullets, just shoot the bugger with one well placed shot and kevlar will be a useless comodity
 
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andyf    body armour   8/13/2004 8:12:05 AM
its not the kevlar thats the problem really nowadys- its the ceramic plates- amybe a closely spaced burst ill be effective against that?
 
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ripsaw    RE:body armour   8/29/2004 5:48:13 AM
the big problem with the question is that the G11 was designed as a military weapon, not a police weapon, and international treaties [either the hague or geneva] forbid the use of expanding or hollow point bullets in war. the gun is a nifty design tho'. it used spring loaded swipes, like those found on a wankel rotar engine [think mazda rx8] to achieve a gas seal. this is needed because there is no brass cartridge case to form a gas tight seal when the gun is fired as the ammo is caseless. caseless ammo is the wave of the future due to weight and cost savings. the thing is that armies are slow to change so it may be a while. i mean cammoflauge uniforms were used in WWII but the u.s. army only made them standard towards the end of the vietnam war.
 
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Shooter    RE:g11 ammo   1/6/2005 12:44:21 AM
No, metal storm is inherantly less accurate tha any salvo type of gun. None of them will be even close to putting even two shots within 6" of each other. I have fired the G-11 and you are doing good if two of three bullets hit a standard target at 100 meters. In any case, the ammo is too weak to perforate the good armor, no mater what type of bullet it shoots. Not enough mass or velocity to get it done.
 
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