Barrett 25mm rifle, fact or mith

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Old Grunt RE:I agree with Dudley 12/7/2004 8:47:14 AM

Actually the recoil is not a problem. In addition to a very effective compensator it has a buffer system that combines four mechanical springs with a pneumatic piston. Felt recoil is slightly more than what you get with the M24 (a very pleasent surprise when I was test firing). The best thing is that the buffer can be retrofitted to the .50 Cal systems reducing their felt recoil to that of the M16.

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NippleChips RE: But what about recoil? 12/29/2004 8:20:54 PM

remember that this is not a 25 MM bradley cannon round! This a small specially designed round, not a full size 25 mm round. The original Barrett has effective compensators for the .50 cal round; in this model the system has been adjusted accordingly.(look at the small arms review picture of the beefy springs) I read this somewhere a while ago and I may be a a little wrong but last I heard the US special forces in Afghanistan were snapping them up for anti-material use. The reason being that the .50 cal wasn't good enough. I mean, for example, which would you rather use to take a out a SCUD(or fuel tank, yadda yadda) a half inch round with very little explosive fill, or a 1 inch(about) round with considerable explosive fill.

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WinsettZ RE:Short OAL of 25mm 1/5/2005 4:51:28 PM

link Of course, the 25mm in the OCSW isn't as long as the 25mm in the image. Probably quite a bit shorter, though it looks pretty scary if you compare just the bullets and ignore the cartridge.

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Shooter RE:I agree with Dudley 1/5/2005 5:21:42 PM

I do not know what "OLD GRUNT" is smoking, but I need some desperately. The recoil IS TWICE AS HEAVY AS THE .50 BMG ROUND IN THE SAME GUN! Don't belive me read INTERNATIONAL DEFENCE REVIEW's write up some months back. IIRC, the projectile weighs 132 grams and has a MV of 425 M/S. Plug those numbers into your balistics program to find the recoil in a 33 pound gun. IIRC it is almost 70 ft/lbs or about twice the average 12gage magnum recoil in an 8 pound gun. I have seen 40mm grenades that weighed 220 grams compaired to 190-200 typical, that are launched at +100 m/s compaired to the traditional 75-76 m/s. This more than doubles the range and the recoil is not half of the 25 mm Barret "Payload Rifle". I would rather hafe 30-40 grams of HE landing on my target than 12-18.

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Old Grunt RE:I agree with Dudley 1/6/2005 10:17:04 AM

And you fired the 25mm exactly when? If I can set up a shoot, are you willing to travel? You really should trust personal experience over what you read in a magazine (or internet forum for that matter). I can do ballistics math as well as anyone and I fully expected to be hammered unmercifully by the 25. I was quite gratified that this was not the case. This is the difference between taking abstract numbers in a vacuum and the reality of firearms engineering. I so love my job!!!

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Old Grunt Shooter 1/7/2005 10:57:47 AM

We'll have to wait on the shoot. I've been informed the 25's are currently "not in country". In the meantime... The 25mm ammo (25X59Bmm) fired by the Barrett Payload rifle is a low velocity (mv 2600fps), low impulse (13.4 lb/sec) round. The .50BMG round is a high velocity (mv 2900fps) round with nearly the same impulse as the 25X59Bmm round (13.2lb/sec). Also note that the Barrett "heavies" are short recoil operated. Since I suspect that "Shooter" should be preceeded by "Pistol" you should be familiar with that type of operation. The beauty of recoil operation is that much of energy that produces felt recoil is absorbed by the barrel, bolt, and carrier group as the weapon cycles. Admittedly if that were the only means of dampening even the .50 would be a shoulder dislocator so additional mechanical means are employed to negate the felt recoil. The Payload rifle has a set of two additional recoil springs and two hydraulic buffers. These effectively slow the bolt velocity to 250inch/sec, the same as the M82A3 in .50BMG, which is manageable but definitely not comfortable. In recoil operated systems, bolt and carrier velocity play a critical role in not only felt recoil, but in extraction and ejection as well (too fast you get case head seperation, too slow and you get stovepiping). The final benefit of recoil operated systems is that the exhaust gasses can be used as part of the recoil management system. The muzzle brake on the Payload rifle is redesigned from the M107/M82A3 and is substantially more efficient. In fact, if you place the Payload rifles muzzle brake on the M107, it doesn't generate enough recoil to begin to cycle!!! This is where I feel the Payload rifle loses some of it's tactical ability. You have to no-kidding ensure that there are no personnel or loose debris of any kind within a 30 degree cone extending back from the muzzle for a distance of twelve feet because of the redirected muzzle blast. The result is felt recoil comparable to the M24, a bolt action 7.62mm rifle. As for what the article said, I read often in various publications that the recoil from the M203 40mm grenade launcher is "approximately that of a 12ga magnum shotgun." Anyone who has ever fired one knows that's a crock.

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Bigbro RE:Shooter - Old Grunt 1/7/2005 11:26:34 AM

Would it be possible to use a suppresser with the "25"? Also do you see any applications for this system or is it a one trick pony? thanks Bb

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WinsettZ RE:Shooter - Old Grunt 1/7/2005 1:36:07 PM

There's a weird AMR called the RT-20 that shoots 20mm Hispano. link

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Old Grunt RE:Shooter - Old Grunt 1/7/2005 1:54:38 PM

No, a suppressor would interfere with the redirection of the muzzle blast and negate the all important recoil mitigation. It's strictly an antimaterial system. Max effective range is touted as 2100m but I would stay under 1800m personally. The external ballistics of the 25mm round are anything but great. The TPT round duplicates the performance of the .50BMG round out to about 1600m or so but it gets a little squirrelly after that. However, being able to deliver a round that can defeat 2.1 inches of HHA at 1800m with an accuracy of 1.1 MOA is pretty cool. TOF is pretty slow though, I was able to have two rounds "on the way" when engaging a 2000m target. I think my observer clocked it at about seven seconds. You probably don't want to engage anything that's moving.

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Bigbro RE:Shooter - Old Grunt 1/7/2005 6:25:06 PM

1.1 moa W/ 2.1 " HHA at 1800 Meters is pretty cool! What is the lethal radius for fragments? thank you very much for the update. Bb

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