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Subject: Rods From God
Vossiewulf    4/3/2004 9:58:48 PM
I haven't seen this discussed here, forgive me if it's a repeat. I sent a mail recently to the editor at G2mil.com, asking about kinetic weapons for bunker busting. I had been thinking about this for a while, having seen references to similar ideas in fiction. I couldn't understand why it wasn't being done, as it seemed like pretty simple technology. Take a tungsten or DU rod, say three meters long or so, put on some fins and actuators for guidance, and a GPS unit in the tail. Loft it up to low earth orbit, and when you want to make something go away, drop a big dart on them. If we're talking a deep bunker target, the question wouldn't be whether it was destroyed, but rather how much was converted to plasma and how much was reduced to fine powder. Not to mention that you might strike oil in the process. Someone with knowledge of the math could do the exact calculations, but I think it's safe to say that the KE and penetration would fall in the "Holy Jesus" category. It really could be dirt-simple tech. You have the cost to loft it upstairs, and its carrier has to be able to project it onto a vector, but that's it. Anyway, editor came back and surprised me by saying yeah, it's a good idea, and folks are already working on it. They call them "Rods From God". See: link One thing that concerns me about such a system, though, is that the potential level of destruction is pretty danged scary, and there's no fear of fallout or other nuclear contamination to put a brake the decision to use them. Anyway, wondering what people think of the idea.
 
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DragonReborn    RE:Rods From God - latecomer notes   1/29/2006 12:59:44 PM
How about negating the high cost of orbital stations and getting the rods up there by simply diverting passing asteroids? Send out a special shuttle team to intercept a large enough asteroid, where they would fix rocket boosters, guidance and reenrty coating so you can get a large chunk of rock through the atmosphere within reasonable distance of your target, close enough to destroy the target. Penetration wouldnt be great though. However would be fantstic at disrupting staging areas and general infrstructure as well as putting the fear of god into eveyone in the area, especially if it was possible to grop enough asteroids together so as to stage an American "shock'n'awe" style premptive strike! Sure that was done in one or more sci fi films?
 
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Weasel    RE:Rods From God -   1/29/2006 1:18:22 PM
umm, did anyone say helios? its more than capable of staying on station and delivering small KE "darts" on targets from 12 miles up. Cost 20 million USD. cheers
 
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Carl S    RE:Rods From God -   1/29/2006 2:59:33 PM
A few random nitpiks: Common A36 structural steel weighs in at 475 lbs per cubic foot, so the 12" dia x 20' rod mentioned will weigh in at about five tons. How many of those can be affordably launched? Asteroids: You are going to have find a lot of fuel in orbit somewhere, or expend the necessary energy to hoist it up there, and get it to the asteroid. Maybe you could orbit a junk yard compactor and snag old satillites to make the KE shots from. : )
 
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TrustButVerify    RE:Rods From God -   1/30/2006 6:15:36 PM
Carl S beat me to the punch on the asteroids bit. Pop culture appearances? Well, it was used as a story arc in the old (1990s) G.I. Joe comic book around 1994. That's all I can think of.
 
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Rommel       8/9/2007 12:52:53 PM
Although guys it could work as a way to deliver nuclear or EMP warheads without stopping them(recently nations have made progress in ABM techs. such as Airborne laser Ground based interceptors andtrying to use Patriot PAC-3s to shoot down Ballistic Missiles.
 
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Jeff_F_F       8/10/2007 4:22:22 PM
My take on the subject is that while it is financially horribly expensive to deploy such a weapon, it is considered to be cheap compared to the political cost of the alternative against certain specialized targets.
 
Specifically massively well protected impossibly high value targets like the chemical weapons plant that Quadafi was building that was designed specifically to prevent destruction short of invasion or nuclear weapon, and which was specifically what the ground penetrating nuclear weapons were being developed to defeat, until OIF made the issue a moot point by convincing Quadafi that invasion that both of those options were on the table.
 
As such the fact that the weapon doesn't penetrate that far but is very efficient at transferring energy into the earth is actually a plus. Consider that any energy directed upward by the explosion has to be redirected upward by the equal and opposite reaction of the energy transferred into the earth. So essentially this is a 1 Kt ground penetrating nuke without the nuclear fallout, or the political fallout. And frees the united states of being put in the position of being forced to decide if a target is worth invading over.
 
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Jeff_F_F       8/10/2007 4:23:08 PM
The real question in my mind is, how effective is the Massive Ordinance Penetrator at fulfilling this role?
 
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DragonReborn       8/29/2007 5:06:11 PM
How many MOPs does the USAF have? How many do you think they would need for Iran???

h**p://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/7/26/212543.shtml
 
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greenshift       9/6/2007 6:31:37 PM
   i think most ppl posting miss something. when you deorbit something its not exactly easy to get it to hit the ground at anything close to 90 degrees. you would lose a lot of the energy forcing the rod to do that if its even possible. so whats the point when you spend large amounts getting the rod up there with a booster for deorbit and also something to allow it to change orbits. im sure we will be looking at more then 5 tons now.

   better idea on how to use a rod from god make a short/med range ballistic missile to lob the Rod as high as you can. put gps/laser seeker onto the missile to make sure it comes down correctly and on target.
 
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Nichevo       9/19/2007 10:35:23 PM

   i think most ppl posting miss something. when you deorbit something its not exactly easy to get it to hit the ground at anything close to 90 degrees. 


So?  Come in at an angle.  90 degrees ain't holy.  At an angle the rod might do more damage to the facility.
 
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