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Subject: RPG Vs. AT-4
Kodiak    6/20/2003 10:40:26 AM
I've seen several comparisons between RPG's and 40mm grenade launchers on this site. IMO this seems to be unfair, comparing a rocket-motored munition with a smaller powder charge round. Of course the RPG will have more punch in this situation, but it is larger and not able to be put onto an M-16 (or I guess Kalishnikov would be applicable with respect to the RPG, still, can't be gone). If we are talking about comparing personal rocket launchers, then I submit the AT-4 is superior to the RPG in almost every aspect. Better accuracy, portability (it's shorter), range, and closing speed. And, of course, the standard high explosive warhead outperforms RPG's easily. Thoughts?
 
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Kodiak    RE:RPG Vs. AT-4   6/26/2003 9:08:29 AM
my source is www.fas.org, and this site itself has a whole article on the RPG, and if you think you can hit a vehicle @ 500 yards w/ an RPG, or a moving one @ 300, you need to put down the funny cigarette
 
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Kodiak    RE:RPG Vs. AT-4   6/26/2003 9:46:50 AM
By the way, that attitude makes you seem like a jerk-off.
 
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Vympel    RE:RPG Vs. AT-4   6/27/2003 4:22:24 AM
"By the way, that attitude makes you seem like a jerk-off." Value style over substance eh? I'm not surprised. "my source is www.fas.org, and this site itself has a whole article on the RPG, and if you think you can hit a vehicle @ 500 yards w/ an RPG, or a moving one @ 300, you need to put down the funny cigarette" LOL, yeah, let's see, I guess the world's military organizations should just cancel their $1,500 dollar per year subscription to one of the most prestigious defense journal's on the planet and just mosey on over to the federation of american scientists bodgy page filled with countless shoddy pages lifted directly from other people's websites, including a photoshopped Eurofighter they tried to pass off as the new Chinese super fighter *roll eyes*. Or, if you can't pay the cash, maybe you should just content yourself with downloading the Worldwide Equipment Guide that is publically available and intended for use with US FM 100-65 capabilities based Opposing Force manuals. By all means, keep visiting fas.org, after all, those field manual authors like to smoke the funny cigarette too- they really should've visted fas.org. *snigger*
 
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mustavaris    RE:RPG Vs. AT-4   6/27/2003 5:39:48 AM
At-4 has muzzle velocity of 290 m/s.. Range IS 2100- but it only means that the projectile flies that far. I dont know how much the speed decreases, but by counting 2100/290 one gets over 7 seconds flight time. BUT its a recoiless rifle, so projectile starts to lose its velocity right after being shot, so the real flight time may be near 10 s or even more. So you CANNOT hit anything with that at that range if it moves and when counting wind and the losing of kinetic energy the probable hit radius must be several meters, even more at maximum range. Practical range of AT-4 is 300m for a direct hit to stationary target and 250m against moving targets. Good man can hit much further though like a good RPG guy can use rockets self-destruction to create airburst. Kodiak; how did you get irritated just after few facts? Donīt be too soft-skinned.
 
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mustavaris    RE:RPG Vs. AT-4   6/27/2003 5:51:38 AM
one thing to add... RPG-7īs projectile reaches its maximum range after 4,5 seconds and antipersonel rockets have max range of 1100 metres.
 
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Vympel    RE:RPG Vs. AT-4   6/27/2003 6:08:44 AM
A well-trained/experienced RPG gunner can aim his shots so as to utlize the self-destruct of the standard PG-7 grenade as a cheap form of airburst artillery and/or anti-aircraft (helicopter) weapon- I think it was in Afghanistan first (and subsequently Chechnya) though I'm sure that the Somalis in Moghadishu 93 used the airburst to knock out at least one UH-60s tail rotor. Didn't know the anti-personnel grenade had a longer SD time, thanks mustavaris. Of course, your average Iraqi conscript wouldn't have a hope of trying to pull something like that off.
 
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Kodiak    RE:RPG Vs. AT-4   6/27/2003 9:44:13 AM
OK, I cna agree with all of this, but what about and RPG VS. the Javelin or Predator, and why did the US do away with our own RPG's in the 70's?
 
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Kodiak    RE:RPG Vs. AT-4   6/27/2003 9:45:33 AM
Is there any rocket-type infantry weapon that the US employs that is better overall than an RPG?
 
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Vympel    RE:RPG Vs. AT-4   6/27/2003 10:40:48 AM
OK, I cna agree with all of this, but what about and RPG VS. the Javelin or Predator, and why did the US do away with our own RPG's in the 70's? Javelin and Predator win hands down, but of course, these are guided anti-tank missiles in a totally different class of weapon than the RPG/AT-4 class (man portable, last line of defense AT weapon). Compared to Russian man-portable guided anti-tank weapons, Javelin is undoubtedly superior- it has superior range over it's nearest Russian analog, the just-introduced Metis-M1 (Javelin has 2,500m over the 2,000m of the Metis-M1) and it has top-attack, which no Russian ATGM has yet, not to mention fire and forget. The only advantage Russian ATGMs have is that they all can use missiles with thermobaric warheads for when attacking fortifications. The US never really had an RPG-equivalent weapon unless you mean the last versions of the bazooka- I believe they replaced it with the M72 LAW- a very substandard weapon. The Dragon ATGM was a POS too- Javelin replaces that. I don't know why they abandoned the reloadable launcher, but not many nations have followed (Germany's Panzerfaust 3, for example). The closest thing the US has to the RPG is either the Carl Gustav M3 MAAWS, or the SMAW that the Marines use (Army used some in Desert Storm)- however unlike the Russians these aren't deployed at the company level rather than the squad level, IIRC. The RPG-29 'Vampir' is the latest reloadable RPG. It's quite big but it's also extremely powerful (105mm like the new big PG-7VR grenade of the RPG-7, but a heavier round). (PS I apologize for losing my temper and in general being a prick)
 
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Kodiak    RE:RPG Vs. AT-4   6/27/2003 11:46:44 AM
LOL, no apology needed, I was a smartass first, I think. What is your assesment of an M3 MAWWS Vs. an RPG-29?
 
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