The Avoidable G36 Disaster

Military History \| How To Make War \| Wars Around the World	Rules of Use	How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Weapons of the World Discussion Board
Return to Topic Page

Subject: The Avoidable G36 Disaster
SYSOP 5/5/2015 6:04:57 AM

Quote Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title Newest to Oldest

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT

JFKY Inevitably, 5/5/2015 7:31:06 AM

this will become an M-16 is Good/Bad thread....so, let me jump in early. This little article stats from the premise that the gas operation system of the M-16 is "bad." It is not, it comes with positive & negative benefits. Positively, it is simpler than a gas piston system....in combat, SIMPLE IS GOOD. Negatively, it does introduce propellant gasses into the guts of the weapon....HOWEVER, the article asserts that this makes the M-16 "wear out quicker"...some evidence of this please. Bottom-Line: clean the M-16 & fire a decent propellant thru it & you have a decent combat rifle. As an aside: this is why I'd choose an American weapon like the M-1 MBT or the M-16 over a German weapon....for all their faults, the M-1/16 have multiple years of combat under their belts, you know what works & doesn't work....the Leopard2a6+ & the G-36 are, on paper, very good weapons...but you are buying, comparatively, a Pig-in-a-Poke.

Quote Reply

keffler25 5/5/2015 9:22:18 AM

:Leopard has seen enough use (I think) to prove its bona fides. The Canadians seem very happy with it. I would need evidence to show me otherwise.

Not a rifle expert. I agree though that if the weapon functions correctly through battle 'dirty' that it is superior to a weapon that loses accuracy through heat burden. However if the dirty weapon jams, that just gives you a different problem that may take longer to fix than a properly designed non direct gas impingement on the bolt gas operated piston weapon.would have.

Just the same, the G-36 sure sounds a lot in design like the H and K XM-8 the Americans rejected. Same reason?

Quote Reply

Yimmy 5/5/2015 9:28:52 AM

A gas tube isn't simpler than a gas piston. A long-stroke gas piston is just a rod attached to the bolt carrier, or rather part of the bolt group. A short-stroke piston is just a detachable rod with a spring attached. I have never heard of a gas piston failing.

I have never used a G36, but I think some of it's deisgn ideas improved the L85 to A2 standard. I have had a play with a H&K53, and that was a great little weapon.

Quote Reply

trenchsol 5/5/2015 9:43:05 AM

H&K fixed L-85. I suppose they could fix their own rifle. Considering large numbers of rifles in use, even the smallest modification is going to cost a lot. Many rifles with long service life ended up being significantly modified. Not all. AK survived in all forms, old and new ones. G-3 was not modified much. FN-FAL and Galil too.

Quote Reply

trenchsol 5/5/2015 9:53:34 AM

I think that XM-8 was rejected because contest participants sued or threatened to sue because competition rules were not followed properly.

There is no perfect rifle, I guess. There is one thing about M-16. There are many users, but only Americans seem to complain.

Quote Reply

JFKY Yimmy & trenchsol 5/5/2015 9:54:51 AM

Yimmy an H&K-53 is the G-3 delayed roller locking system...in a much more compact frame & 5.56 X 43 mm...it's not really comparable to a G-36, in my far-from-expert opinion....

Two, no a gas system IS more simple....there are NO moving parts...the gas is tapped off from the muzzle & operates the weapon. There's a tube....that's it.

Trenchsol, the problem with the G-36 seems to be manufacturing & design....yes, bad materials, but the weapon may be designed to fight in the Fulda Gap & Bavaria...short firefights, against Soviet Motorized Riflemen, with little ammunition who were likely to fall back when the tanks were turned back. "The Next War in Europe", NOT the next war that they actually fight...so "fixing" the problem may be more than just making sure the correct polymers are used. I'd say the Bundeswehr made a bad mistake in the selection of the G-36...seemingly built on a set of A-Historical assumptions...but that is really just a civilian's opinion.

Keffler, the G-36 was INDEED the 5.56mm portion of the OICWS & then broken out & proposed as the M-8...looks like we Lucked Out.

Quote Reply

trenchsol 5/5/2015 12:52:10 PM

The way I understand it, G-36 has high quality, free floating barrel, enclosed in polymer housing. Barrel itself deals with heat fine. However, polymers are poor heat conductors, so heat might be piling up inside the housing and temperature is rising. There are openings which are supposed to allow air circulation, but apparently they are not enough. Perhaps it might be enough to add metal surfaces on the housing to improve heat exchange.

Using another polymer might only delay the problem, perhaps. Perhaps not.

Quote Reply

JFKY Trenchsol 5/5/2015 1:00:46 PM

from what I have gathered, here at least, is that the G-36 was/is designed, as I wrote, to fight the USSR's Motorized Riflemen, in a temperate European climate...Short firefights, nothing prolonged, as an afterthought to the larger Panzer/Panzerjager Battles that were to "decide" the Next War in Europe.....I could be wrong in this assertion, if I so I will gladly retract it.

My point is/was it was a poorly thought out weapon, it seems....UNLESS the Bundeswehr could point out the evidence from the Wehrmacht in it's fight across Europe 1939-45 that riflemen did not participate in long rifle fights....but that the wither the firefights were SHORT or that the bulk of the fire was from MG-42's & the like & that Landsers didn't shoot that much....

The evidence from WWI-WWII is that Infantry Combat occurs within 600 metres of the infantryman....is there any data on the length of time of the firefights as well as their range?

Quote Reply

keffler25 5/5/2015 2:03:04 PM

Discussion here.

Quote Reply

trenchsol 5/5/2015 2:08:45 PM

JFKY, I think that line of reasoning makes no sense. Not yours, but about the rifles purpose. Assault rifle is, by definition, an universal weapon. Perhaps the most universal weapon of all. One that should be reasonably fit for all kinds of combat situations. It is not a shotgun or sniper rifle, not a specialized weapon.One should be able to fit a scope on it and engage distant targets as well as enter the dark building full of bad guys.

Besides one never know if the weapon is going to be exported to other country, most assault rifles do.

Besides, there is an option to fit Beta-C 100 round drums. If that is not for prolonged firefights, then it must be for decoration, I suppose.

Quote Reply

1 2 3 4 5 NEXT