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Subject: V-22 Gunship, why not?
DragonReborn    3/22/2009 10:25:22 AM
The max cruise speed of the SuperCobra is 190 knots/218mph (wiki) and Apache 197 knots/225mph,.. the max speed of the V-22 is 305 knots/351 mph so I see a gap in being able to escort V-22's at full speed into a hot LZ. Would it be possible to convert some into a gunship varient? Perhaps with Option 1. * M197 3-barreled 20 mm "Gatling-style" cannon in the A/A49E-7 turret (750 rounds ammo capacity) * 2.75 in (70 mm) Hydra 70 rockets - Mounted in LAU-68C/A (7 shot) or LAU-61D/A (19 shot) launchers * 5 in (127 mm) Zuni rockets - 8 rockets in two 4-round LAU-10D/A launchers * TOW Missiles - Up to 8 missiles mounted in two-missile launchers on each hardpoint * AGM-114 Hellfire Missiles - Up to 8 missiles mounted in two 4-round M272 missile launchers, one on each outboard hardpoint * AIM-9 Sidewinder Anti-Aircraft Missiles - 1 mounted on each outboard hardpoint (total of 2) Option 2. # Guns: 1× 30 mm (1.18 in) GAU-8/A Avenger gatling cannon with 1,174 rounds # * Rockets: o 4× LAU-61/LAU-68 rocket pods (each with 19× / 7× Hydra 70 mm rockets, respectively) o 4× LAU-5003 rocket pods (each with 19× CRV7 70 mm rockets) o 6× LAU-10 rocket pods (each with 4× 127 mm (5.0 in) Zuni rockets) Options 3. * Guns: 1× 30x113 mm (1.18x4.45 in) M230 cannon, 1,200 rounds * Rockets: Hydra 70 FFAR rockets * Missiles: combination of AGM-114 Hellfire, AIM-92 Stinger, and AIM-9 Sidewinder Imagine a gun ship that can provide CAS, engage enemy armour and defenses and then land its compliment of marines to hold the objective? Thoughts?
 
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DragonReborn       3/22/2009 10:28:30 AM
AV-22?
 
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Ringo       3/22/2009 2:41:24 PM
A gunship version really wouldn't be very effective.  You're thinking of the V-22 as a fast helicopter.  The V-22 is much more accurately thought of as a small plane than can land in very remote places.  It is not capable of doing the same things as helicopter, which is why it finds itself in a different niche.  We already have A-10s, F-16s, F-15Es that could do the job more capably than a V-22, and without millions in development costs.  The abilities of a close escort helicopter are something we give up to get the speed of the V-22. 
 
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WarNerd       3/22/2009 6:45:48 PM

Imagine a gun ship that can provide CAS, engage enemy armour and defenses and then land its compliment of marines to hold the objective?

Why not just buy Hind helocopters, they are designed for the job?
 
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ArtyEngineer    Dragon   3/22/2009 10:11:39 PM


The max cruise speed of the SuperCobra is 190 knots/218mph (wiki) and Apache 197 knots/225mph,.. the max speed of the V-22 is 305 knots/351 mph so I see a gap in being able to escort V-22's at full speed into a hot LZ.

Would it be possible to convert some into a gunship varient?

Perhaps with

Option 1.

* M197 3-barreled 20 mm "Gatling-style" cannon in the A/A49E-7 turret (750 rounds ammo capacity)
* 2.75 in (70 mm) Hydra 70 rockets - Mounted in LAU-68C/A (7 shot) or LAU-61D/A (19 shot) launchers
* 5 in (127 mm) Zuni rockets - 8 rockets in two 4-round LAU-10D/A launchers
* TOW Missiles - Up to 8 missiles mounted in two-missile launchers on each hardpoint
* AGM-114 Hellfire Missiles - Up to 8 missiles mounted in two 4-round M272 missile launchers, one on each outboard hardpoint
* AIM-9 Sidewinder Anti-Aircraft Missiles - 1 mounted on each outboard hardpoint (total of 2)

Option 2.

# Guns: 1× 30 mm (1.18 in) GAU-8/A Avenger gatling cannon with 1,174 rounds
# * Rockets:
o 4× LAU-61/LAU-68 rocket pods (each with 19× / 7× Hydra 70 mm rockets, respectively)
o 4× LAU-5003 rocket pods (each with 19× CRV7 70 mm rockets)
o 6× LAU-10 rocket pods (each with 4× 127 mm (5.0 in) Zuni rockets)

Options 3.

* Guns: 1× 30x113 mm (1.18x4.45 in) M230 cannon, 1,200 rounds
* Rockets: Hydra 70 FFAR rockets
* Missiles: combination of AGM-114 Hellfire, AIM-92 Stinger, and AIM-9 Sidewinder


Imagine a gun ship that can provide CAS, engage enemy armour and defenses and then land its compliment of marines to hold the objective?

Thoughts?
Sorry to be a bit rude here but a "Gunship" varient of the V-22 is quite simply moronic!!!  You are aware that in the forward flight mode with nacells rotated fully forward their is only 18 inches of clearance between the tips of the props anf the side of the aircrafts body, hence rendering any hardpoint mounted weapons be they 2.75" rockets or Hellfires totally unusable!!!  See pic below:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk297/M777A2/WEB%20PICS/070720_mv22osprey_02.jpg" width="400" border="0" />
Please tell me you dont envision this bird having to transition to teh hover to employ these weapons!!!  Having actually been under this bird hooking up a load I can tell you in this mode it is one of the most ponderous and unresponsive birds around.  Nevermind the fact that teh rotor wash is so extreme it kicks up so much debris that your ability to be sneaky and hide behind treelines and rolling hills is absolutely non existent!!!  The only armament the V-22 is likely to get is teh "Remote Guardian System" shown below:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk297/M777A2/WEB%20PICS/guardian.jpg" width="400" border="0" />
 
This turreted system will retract into the belly of the aircraft and is primarily for self defense, and limited suppression of an LZ.

 



 
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ArtyEngineer    MV-22 with RGS   3/22/2009 10:17:18 PM
Here is a pic of the only armed varaient of the V-22 you will ever likely see:
 
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk297/M777A2/WEB%20PICS/ORD_RWS_RGS_on_MV-22_Slide_lg.jpg" width="500" border="0" />
 
 
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DragonReborn    Forward flight mode with nacells   3/23/2009 9:17:31 AM
Yeah, I did think about the 'forward flight mode with nacells' but assumed there might be a way of getting around this?! In WW1 they used a mechanism in bi-planes that allowed bullets to fire only inbetween the propellor, although I'm sure it would be much harder to do with a missle/rocket!!
 
I guess in reality you would send in fast movers (A-10s, F-16,18s etc) to clear the LZ, followed by Apaches/Cobras and only then bring in the V-22s once the LZ was supressed.
 
I was just imagining a re-run of the famous "Apocalypse Now" Air Cav scene only with V-22s. The Helicopter Gunship was bourne out of first arming Hueys so I thought it could be a natural evolution.
 
Could a weaopns bay be built underneath?
 
I knew it was probably a stupid idea but wanted to get the reasons from someone who know more than me (which isnt hard!)
 
Cheers,
DR 
 
 
 
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DragonReborn    Forward flight mode with nacells   3/23/2009 9:26:36 AM



Imagine a gun ship that can provide CAS, engage enemy armour and defences and then land its compliment of marines to hold the objective?




Why not just buy Hind helicopter's, they are designed for the job?
Yeah, I don't see the US buying Hinds somehow, but by expanding the capabilities of the V-22 maybe there would be support as it would be further justification of the expensive project.
 
An AV-22 would be faster than any helo, and maybe if you could build an internal weapons bay and up gun the current proposed gun to a meatier chain gun you could have an awesome platform?
 
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the A-10 is beast       12/23/2011 8:22:33 PM
my thoughts are that the air force only has how many ac-130 in service at the moment? not very many and yet they are a very effective weapon. all the air force would have to do is replace all of the armour on the v-22 with titanium. then they could add on 2 forward firing 30mm bushmaster cannons, under they could place a m230 25mm chain gun, in the back they could place either side firing 30 or 40mm cannons, on the sides for longer range depending on the mission sidewinders or hellfire missiles. it wouldn't be used as an attack heli but as a support chopper for ground forces that could keep up with them when flying at top speed. as you said the v-22 top speed is about 125 mile an hour faster than any attack chopper in our arsenal. they could also make a version were there are 2-4 forward facing m134 dillion gatling guns. then the v-22 could still be mobile, drop troops, and support them to there objective. they should have done this to chinooks a long time ago.
 
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