Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Air Transportation Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Osprey Question
PowerPointRanger    5/26/2008 1:39:59 AM
The Osprey has completed its first combat deployment. By all accounts, it was a success. So why did the Pentagon decide to buy less and not more?
 
Quote    Reply

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest

Pages: 1 2
PowerPointRanger    Broke   7/10/2008 1:31:06 AM
Consider the following list of Helicopters still in service in the US military with the year they were introduced or went into full production.  Remember, this is the bulk of the US helicopter fleet.
 
Attack Helicopters:
AH-1W Super Cobra (1971)
AH-64 Apache (1981)
 
Transport Helicopters:
CH-46 Sea Kight (1962)
CH-47 Chinook (1962)
CH-53 Sea/Super Stallion (1981)
UH-60 Black Hawk (1979)
UH-1 Huey (1959)
 
Scout Helicopter:
OH-58 (1969)
 
We haven't really introduced any new aircraft in the 20 years since your ETS (with the exception of the Osprey, which is so expensive that we can't afford to to buy enough to replace the aircraft they are supposed to replace, and the ARH-70, which will replace the OH-58).
 
Some of those choppers flying around Afghanistan are 40 years old.  Granted, they have been refurbish/upgraded, but there comes a point where you are just painting racing stripes on a Model T.  They were not designed to fly such a long time and most will not be replaced any time soon.
 
Quote    Reply

phrogdriver       7/15/2008 6:27:47 PM
When I said that Army aviation was "broke," I meant "broke" in terms of being out of money, not "broken" as an institution.  The Army used a lot of money developing the Comanche for naught, and has a lot of aging aircraft with no immediate replacements in sight.  In the long term, it is going to have a hard time sustaining itself, much less replacing the aircraft that are growing old, especially with the concept that its Future Combat Systems family of equipment is all supposed to be tactically transportable.
 
Quote    Reply

PowerPointRanger    Bottom line   8/31/2008 11:02:38 PM
It's going to cost a lot of money to fix aviation.  There's no getting around it.
 
But as long as we're going to spend that money, the question is: how would it be best spent?
 
 
Quote    Reply

FlyingDutchman       9/1/2008 8:49:23 AM

Attack Helicopters:

AH-1W Super Cobra (1971)

AH-64 Apache (1981)

  

We haven't really introduced any new aircraft in the 20 years since your ETS (with the exception of the Osprey, which is so expensive that we can't afford to to buy enough to replace the aircraft they are supposed to replace, and the ARH-70, which will replace the OH-58).

 

Some of those choppers flying around Afghanistan are 40 years old.  Granted, they have been refurbish/upgraded, but there comes a point where you are just painting racing stripes on a Model T.  They were not designed to fly such a long time and most will not be replaced any time soon.


This isn't correct.
Sure, the first models of the AH-64 rolled off the assembly lines in '84 (instead of your '81, correct?), but it's still being built today AFAIK. I have no idea what part of the Apache fleet is 20 years old or more, but you're suggesting all Apache's are from '81. Wouldn't at least all the Longbow versions be max 10 years old?
 
In your logic, the US Army should ditch the M-4, solely because it's based on the M-16, which is half a century old design.
Just like all armies with G-36's should ditch those, as that's also based on an older rifle.
If I understand your post correctly, your problem is more with the age of the original design then with the choppers themselves.
 
I do agree partly with your remark about refurbished choppers; you can only keep refurbishing that long, after a certain point it becomes much more expensive to keep the older planes/choppers/whatever then to buy new ones.
The Australian F-111's are an example of that.
 
AFAIK (again) refurbishment or upgrading of old airframes usually means they're as good as new.
The new rebuilt Nimrod's the UK has are newly built planes for all purposes. 'painting racestripes on a T-Ford' is a bit of an understatement.
 
Quote    Reply
1 2



StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2012StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy