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Subject: JSF more effective than Typhoon Ehhhh...
ulf@autic.se    3/12/2001 5:21:48 AM
"The US is outraged, saying that the Joint Strike Fighter will cost half as much and will be more effective"
More effective at what exactly?

Maybe as target practice for Typhoon?s equipped whit Meteor!
 
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reserva120@hotmail.com    RE:JSF more effective than Typhoon Ehhhh...   4/1/2002 1:57:34 PM
Don't suger coat it how do you really feel?? put this on the fighter board, we've milked the f-16vsmig-29 to death.......oh and by the way all that stuff having british made parts,Typhoon&meteor means it won't fly and won't be able to hit a 747, let alone a jsf........
 
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Tonker    RE:JSF more effective than Typhoon Ehhhh...   8/9/2003 4:38:37 PM
Yep leave out the uk bits and build a missle from good old uncle sam like "Patriot". Then you could state you destroyed all incomming scuds when in fact you missed them all. Next time you use the weapon think about shooting down your allies and when their all gone maybe an f18 over Kuwait! just a thought
 
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giblets    RE:JSF more effective than Typhoon Ehhhh...   9/4/2003 5:13:48 AM
Reserva, you seem to misising out that much of the JSF will be made in the UK, also was it Boeing who openly laughed at the Airbus A310 when it came out telling everyone the wings (the British part) were far too small to fulfil its range/payloads requirements (which it handsomely beat). Talking of reliability is'nt it the F-22 with an average in between service time of 15mins to couple of hours? (page 13) link
 
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tomanbeg    RE:JSF more effective than Typhoon Ehhhh...   9/16/2003 6:51:49 AM
How will the Typhoon find the F-35? No Non-Stealthed Air Plane can defeat a stealthy aircraft. If you can't find it, you can't kill it. T.
 
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Nasty German Idiot    RE:JSF more effective than Typhoon Ehhhh...   9/16/2003 8:55:01 AM
One was shot down over Serbia (or went down because of technical problems, as you will surely claim) Anoter one was forced down by totally outdated Austrain Planes because it violated the Austrian Airspace by trying to fly in the radar-shadow (i dont know how to say it in englisch) of an 747 but was located by the Austrian Radar.
 
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tomanbeg    RE:JSF more effective than Typhoon Ehhhh...   9/16/2003 10:33:42 PM
Guess again. It was an F-117 that was shot down by the Serbs. While there has been no published info on that, I seem to remember an article that said the pilot dropped below the cloud base to get a better lase on his target and was spotted visually( against the clouds) by a AAA ( flak) battery. And the other story is pure BS. So what we have here is a loss rate of 1 per several thousand sorties. I'll take that any day. Do you even know what Stealth is and what it's for? It doesn't mean invisible, and it doesn't mean radar can't detect it. It means radar can't detect it until the Radar is within the range of the Stealth fighters weapons. All it does is insure that the Stealth airplane gets the first shot. When every one is using precision guided weapons, that is enough to win 99% of the fights. That means the US Air force controls the Sky. And as long as the Air force rules the sky, the Army is unbeatable. T.
 
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giblets    RE:JSF more effective than Typhoon Ehhhh...   9/18/2003 6:31:37 AM
It is also wel known that radar techniology is improving, it is also known that at Farnborough a few years back, that the rapier systems locked onto either the B-2 or the F-117, and that RAF AWACspalens ahve been known to track american stealth aircraft.
 
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Crazy Serb    well....   9/24/2003 10:37:49 AM
F-117 was shotdown near village Budjanovci in western Serbia on Mart 26 1999 whit missile launched from SA-3 Goa system (250. brigade PVO).That SA-3 battery was linked whit an old Russian made radar P-12 and P-18 (we did some modifications on them). Sources from VJ claims that they hit two more F-117.
 
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wallaby bob    RE:JSF more effective than Typhoon Ehhhh...   10/17/2003 5:43:33 PM
TOMANBEG You apparently share the conviction, that STEALTH means invisible, at least to radar. This misconception, widely spread by the "pop" media is just that a MISCONCEPTION! Low observable the current military PR term is,and always was, more appropriate. A low radar cross section in one aspect does not automatically mean that this will apply in all aspects. Using the latest atomic(?) clocks allows illumination of a target by a radar and reception of a "high quality" return by another equipment NOT co-located.This receiver may well be in a direction in which the RCS is not reduced by shaping of the target. Forget "insible",think "harder to detect" and you may be nearer to the harsh reality. WB
 
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HunterSThompson    RE:JSF more effective than Typhoon Ehhhh...   10/31/2003 8:26:35 AM
I'm sorry but there is not point on arguing about this. The JSF is still an X-Plane. They don't even have the first f-35 in one piece. Second how many Typhoons are there? 10? My point is that nobody is sure how good these planes will be. All the info we have on the Typhoon is offically released stuff from EADS and the National Airforces that are buying this plane. The JSF is not even in production yet. IT's performace has been given to us by a computer so I'm sorry but this argument is pointless untill both are in service and see combat.
 
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sentinel28a    RE:JSF more effective than Typhoon Ehhhh...   10/31/2003 11:26:25 AM
In a pure fighter sense, then I would probably hand it to the Typhoon. The Typhoon would be equally as manueverable, would have just as much reach (with Meteors or AMRAAMs), and is faster. However, as a multirole aircraft, the JSF is the better aircraft, and in a close range dogfight, I would hand it to the JSF--it's smaller, can possibly turn tighter (or at least can turn equally as well), and it has an internal gun. Unless the MoD has reversed their position, the Typhoon doesn't. And if you think that doesn't matter, I have a long list of books on the Vietnam air war to change your mind. The problem with the Typhoon isn't that it's a bad aircraft. It's an excellent aircraft. The problem is that it's based on a design (the EAF) that was meant to fight Soviet MiGs over Central Europe. It's a pure fighter; while I think that it can be adapted for a multirole purpose, that won't be its forte. It's forte will be to engage other aircraft. Were Typhoons ever to go up against F-22s, the Raptor would probably eat them up. This is not to say that the Typhoon, in the hands of a good pilot (and most European pilots are good), couldn't take apart a Su-30 or a MiG-29. Since it's not likely that Typhoons are going to be fighting F-22s, it should do fine--complimented with the JSF, as the F-15/F-16 duo is today. I just wish the Typhoon wasn't so hideous. That undernose exhaust is too damn big. It looks like it's going to eat its ground crew...
 
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sentinel28a    RE:JSF more effective than Typhoon Ehhhh...   10/31/2003 11:31:33 AM
On the F-117 shootdown: my impression was that the Serb air defense radars found it by using a number of radars from different wavelengths, finally getting enough "bounce" back to take a guess where the 117 was. They took a chance, and it paid off. The incident with Austria was, I believe, two F-16s that violated Austrian airspace during Bosnia operations. The two 16s got bubble checked by Drakens. I've never heard of F-117s being intercepted by the Austrians; doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I would like to see a source.
 
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giblets    RE:JSF more effective than Typhoon Ehhhh...   11/12/2003 3:55:45 AM
AS for the Typhoon performance, it has not all come from computer, much of it has coem fromthe the prototypes, especially the production prototypes. Though until recently they were operating at only 60-80% of performace, as the envelope is gradually increased (hence why it never looked enitrely impressive at air displays). However, I thinl the production aicraft are getting to their full operational capability now. (there was a report in the german media stating the Typhoon (the two seater trainer in service) could not reach its full requirements), however this was due to the full envelope having not been covered in the airworthyness tests.
 
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HunterSThompson    RE:JSF more effective than Typhoon Ehhhh...   11/13/2003 2:37:02 PM
Giblets- When I was talking about computer models I was talking about the JSF. I guess my point was that the first production version of the f-35 isn't going to fly untill 2005. They just started building the Airframe. We have at least a half decent idea of how good a plane the Typhoon will be. We have no Idea what kind of plane the F-35 will be. I just think this argument is sorta pointless, but I guess it can be fun too.
 
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Worcester    RE:JSF more effective than Typhoon Ehhhh...   11/16/2003 4:21:45 AM
Mmmmm...radar wont find it...Serbs had poor radar; which is it? Or do we just try not to go against anyone better than Iraqi's and Serbs? Guess avoidance is another form of stealth.
 
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