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Subject: Charge!
jastayme3    7/15/2004 6:58:37 PM
OK not charge-would get shot to pieces. I have read a book about World War II cavalry. Apparantly they were of more effect than one would think in a 20th century war. I have also read or heard of mounted troops used in various small wars later on.
I was wondering if the obsolescence of horse cavalry is overstated. Heavy horse is out obviously, but what about "mounted rifles" for recon, etc. They can go into types of terrain that mechanized can't, and infantry would be slow in. They can carry a bigger load. Admittedly they make a big silhouette. Also many of their duties can be done by heliocopter. Still they have proved that they are not totally without advantage in modern war sixty years ago. Have things changed that much?
It is interesting to think about in any case.
 
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Galderio    RE:Charge!   9/27/2004 8:58:07 AM
I´m not an expert, but there are many countries that still use horses and mules ( not as cavalary for sure). Horses are quieter, have lower RCS and thermal signature than hummves and even motorcicles. They can be much more agile also, but fight with then against automatic weapons do not seens a good idea. The best thing for me, is that they can eat grass instead of fuel and require much less logistics and training, they are good for guerrillas and resistance forces. I saw some pictures of chechens fighters riding horses some years ago.
 
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french stratege    RE:Charge!   9/27/2004 9:22:29 AM
Horse are also cheap and much cheaper than an helicopter! In fact they are usefull in difficult terrain warfare or to bring supply to front troops. It is why german army used 700 000 horses in Barbarossa in 41. Even today US army progressed with a speed of 1 miles an hour in average in Iraq! For fighting normally you should dismount.
 
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Yimmy    RE:Charge!   9/27/2004 9:30:38 AM
I believe various nations such as South Africa still use horses for boarder patrols. My great-grandfather was cavalry of the horse type in WWI.
 
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Iano    RE:Charge!   12/19/2004 1:59:41 PM
Really guys this would be laughable in actual reality. I know horses were widely used before, and they were used by special forces in Afghanistan as pack mules, but that was the exception to the rule. Went on exercise to Uzbekistan and the G4 guys, for whatever reason, were doing things the Uzbek way. We saw these tiny spindly donkeys laden with stores with some obnoxious Uzbek on top of it whipping it continually even though it was plainly going as fast as it could round the camp. On the exercise I cannot vouch for having seen it personally, but rumour intelligence STRONGLY indicates that these pack mules made a break for freedom at night! Now then you can see there were problems for us working with the Uzbeks, and the Uzbeks use them regularly yet still have problems! So I would say that it is only an option for people who live their lives alongside these animals and so have mucho understanding with them, special forces as demonstrated in Afghanistan, and maybe re-enactors! Ian
 
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ambush    RE:Charge!   12/19/2004 7:45:52 PM
Horses and mules are still valuable as transportation, depending on METT-T. But not as a battle platforms
 
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towgunner1960    RE:Charge!   12/19/2004 9:05:49 PM
Horses are useful for scouting, you can't live off the land with an atv. You can go hundreds of miles on missions lasting weeks with almost no resupply. Mules can go places that no other machine can. If you don't have a mule you have to carry it in your back pack, allthough camels, lamas and other such types would probably do as well.....
 
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Iano    RE:Charge!   12/20/2004 12:57:32 PM
Yes okay it does sound good on paper doesnt it? And maybe those who grew up with horses or whatever, and special forces types, can make it work. But have you ever tried it? I concede that I havnt but I was there when others did, and all I'm saying is you should have your wits about you and know your stuff first! After all, don't actors always say never to work with children or animals... Ian
 
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towgunner1960    RE:Charge!   12/20/2004 1:56:37 PM
There is a lot of use of horses in the U.S. The border patrol uses them for patrol purposes. Several sheriffs offices, police departments use them for patrol, search and rescue, crowd control, etc. You could probably be trained to use/maintain a horse in two weeks........
 
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ambush    RE:Charge!   12/20/2004 6:44:33 PM
During World War II the US Army used mules in Burma. During the Soviet/Afghan war in the 80s the CIA supplied a lot of US mules to the Afghan rebels to help them move supplies. I understand the war had thinned outthe camel herds. General Patton recommended that a small horse cavalry unit be kept in the Army so that personnel with the sklls to handle horses and pack mules would be available if necessary. Packing Mules is a bit of an art. General Crook found this out. His civilian mule skinners were able to pack more on to mules than Army personnel packing them according to Army regs.
 
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Eagle601    RE:Charge!   12/21/2004 12:22:07 AM
Horese and mules are exceptionally vulnerable to NBC weapons then Hummvees or ATVs though. Assuming the crew has MOPP gear.
 
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Yimmy    RE:Charge!   12/21/2004 10:47:32 AM
In WWI horses and mules had their own gas mask.
 
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Iano    RE:Charge!   12/21/2004 2:29:43 PM
Hmmm interesting then. Towgunner, ambush, I sww your points. Okay then if you are going to properly train people how to use and maintain them and have it worked out. I suppose what I witnessed was that you shouldnt just hand a mule train and interpreter to reservists who've never worked with one before and expect magic! Like any military thing I suppose, training and experience before results. Ian
 
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