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Subject: F-35 Sells As Su-30 Stopper
SYSOP    11/24/2008 5:17:51 AM
 
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SpudmanWP       11/24/2008 12:03:03 PM
You need to re-read the press releases regarding this purchase.
 
The whole 30-year package and lifetime costs of the F-35s were cheaper than the Gripen.

 
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giblets       11/24/2008 2:29:26 PM
You don't expect them to write a ballanced well researched article? Asking a little too much surely....
Isn't this the same contract that Eurofighter pulled out of claiming that the whole exercise was solely to get the price of the F-35 down? (answer: Yes), 
I like the bit about "What changed Norwegian minds....." Do they mean the many changes from the original RFI? From a self defence fighter to offensive strike aircraft...
 
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cuthbert    Interesting article   12/4/2008 12:24:03 AM
 I think that in the not too distant future the Norwegian Govt may be in for a bit of a shock when they come to realise just how much the F35 is going to cost them. The recent article in Flight International quoted  the Norwegians as saying that the 48 F35 aircraft were 6B (NKr) more than the 48 Gripen NG's. This equates to a 25% increase in cost for the aircraft  (not including through-life costs).This doesn't make sense . The price for a Gripen NG aircraft is approx $55-60M.( the Saab website).  This infers that the Norwegians aquired the F35 for around $40-45M per aircraft. I hope they read the recent article in Aviation week which said that the F35 could end up costing more than an F22.
Also if they think the F35 is going to take on a Sukhoi Su30/35 type aircraft perhaps they should read  the following article:-
                                        www.ausairpower.net/0830-ASPI-rebuttal-HR.pdf
where it states among (many) other things that export versions of the F35 are not going to be as stealthy as the US version. Also considering the EW-concerns have been raised that this will be very difficult to achieve because a) there is not the room available in the aircraft for future h/w updates, and b) because the aircraft only has one (albeit powerful) engine there will not the electrical power available to power  any future EW systems. Concerning the point  raised about the US Air Forces simulations; have a read of the (above) pdf article and see if you still agree with that statement.
 
The  selling point about stealth is always being spun concerning the F35 but there are aerospace companies in the Czech Republic who have already designed radar systems that can 'see' the 'hole' created by a stealthy aircraft which pretty much negates the benefits of stealth. 

Finally just to be a bit pedantic!  The P&W engine on the F35 puts out 35k Lbs Thr; the 2 EJ200 engines on the Typhoon put out 20K Lbs thr (each). However the F22 is the most powerful; its 2 P&W 119 engines (same as the F35) puts out a total of 70K Lbs Thr! 

 
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warpig       12/4/2008 1:27:21 AM

 Also if they think the F35 is going to take on a Sukhoi Su30/35 type aircraft perhaps they should read  the following article:-

                                        www.ausairpower.net/0830-ASPI-rebuttal-HR.pdf

where it states among (many) other things that export versions of the F35 are not going to be as stealthy as the US version.
 
Concerning the point  raised about the US Air Forces simulations; have a read of the (above) pdf article and see if you still agree with that statement.

 
The  selling point about stealth is always being spun concerning the F35 but there are aerospace companies in the Czech Republic who have already designed radar systems that can 'see' the 'hole' created by a stealthy aircraft which pretty much negates the benefits of stealth. 



 
Kopp and Goon's spewage is old news that has been properly ripped up one side and down the other many times on this site.
 
If you are referring to equipment like Ramona/Tamara/VERA, you are greatly overestimating the impact and even usefulness of such equipment.  Passive sensors like those are useful adjuncts to traditional sensors like radar, but are by no stretch of imagination even close to negating the great advantage of LO aircraft.
 
 
 
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cwDeici       12/4/2008 5:05:58 AM
If the 35 costs more than the 22 then we just don't pay for it.
 
Hard to tell these things for sure before they deliver.
 
-Half Norwegian

 
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cwDeici       12/4/2008 5:06:56 AM
Anyway, we are quite a rich nation, but I guess we might be in for a shock. It's still a superior aircraft though.
 
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