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Subject: M1A1 nuclear?
GhostShadow    10/5/2005 6:27:25 PM
I have heared rumors about the M1A1 Abram Tank going nuclear. I guess i want to know if 1) do you think it can happen? and 2) When do you think it will happen.
 
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JDELUNA       12/25/2007 9:12:32 PM

So does anyone know or believe 155mm tactical nuke shells exist in the US arsenal for the M109 etc? With the 155mm you have reasonable distance for a low-yield nuke.



I know I am bringing up and old subject. I know when I was in the army stationed in Germany in the late 80's early 90's YES we did carry 155mm tactical nuke shells. They damage I was told that they can do was to destroy small towns and to control enemy troop movements as they would radiate an area to make enemy troops move around the area. These rounds that we carried were GOLD metal  in color. Hope this helps. God Bless :)
 
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00_Chem_AJB    Tangent to an eariler post   12/25/2007 10:24:03 PM
Ok, as stated DU which is basically 99.3% U238 is not a radiological hazard, the chemical toxicity is far more of a danger to health, and that only arises if you some how ingest it. The whole idea of linking the radiological hazard of DU with these sicknesses and birth defects is rather absurd. Using DU does not increase the level of radiological material; the only product of DU munitions use is oxides of uranium (which would have the same radiation levels as the original round) and a destroyed target. TNT is more of a toxicity and mutagenic hazard then DU ever will be. While there are accounts that these medical problems may be related to Iraqi chemical weapons programs, I can not comment on as I am not sure where they were based and where these outbreaks took place. But one has to wonder, when Saddam's thugs set fire to all those oil wells did any one think of the effects the smoke would have on the area? While mainly composed of oxides of carbon and soot, there was so much smoke that there may have been considerable levels of toxic chemicals released, such as benzene.
 
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Traceur_120       9/13/2009 10:49:42 AM
I used to be a tanker, so maybe I can help shed some light on this.  A lot of my NCOs were Desert Storm vets, and several of them mentioned lugging around two tactical nukes at any given time while in theater.  They were in the ammo rack mounted behind the TC rather than behind the loader, so it would have been really difficult to accidentally load one when you meant to load a sabot (would be the last and most embarrassing thing you ever did).  Given the extremely low yield of the warhead these nukes supposedly packed, and that you could fire one over 88km at max gun tube elevation, you would be pretty safe from harm.  Particularly if your driver had the sense to haul ass the other direction right after you fired.
I never personally saw any nukes, so it's entirely possible that the round was phased out before I got in ('06).  However, the fire control systems of the newest iteration of the Abrams have load-specific ballistic data, i.e. it uses a set of targeting parameters for sabot, a different set for HEAT, etc.  There was one which required a typed authorization key, and only gave a model number (since forgotten), and we always assumed it was nuclear.  My loader once asked about it while we were training up on the SEP gunnery system and was curtly informed that the question was beyond his clearance.  Which pretty much answered that question as definitively as "neither confirm nor deny".
 
As for the depleted uranium in the armor and sabot rounds, I'm not sure exactly how hazardous it is.  I do know (courtesy of an ex in a chemical unit) that the armor will trip a geiger counter, but only on contact and even then at really low levels, like 1-5 counts per second.  I'm not qualified to guess whether or not the small amount of DU in the penetrator of a sabot round is likely to cause birth defects just from chilling in the desert for X number of years, but I do occasionally wonder about the risks associated with hanging out around the stuff as much as tankers do.  Some of those guys have been on tracks for 20 years soaking up the occasional rem.
 
Hypothetically, tactical nukes likely wouldn't be used against human-wave threats...that's what canister is for.  Basically a 120mm shotgun, using depleted uranium pellets.  I understand the stuff is useful, but do we have to put it in everything?
 
Nuclear engines for tanks are probably a bad idea, though.  Yes, you'd get an incredible power-to-weight ratio and hardly ever need to refuel, but tanks have always been bullet magnets and if one took an RPG and started leaking by the curie the EPA would be all over that like white on rice on a paper plate in a blizzard.
 
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stbretnco       9/13/2009 11:14:06 AM
I think your NCO's were sending you on a chase for grid squares and ground guides.
 
No way in hell have M1's been running around the battlefield with nukies in the ammo racks. Just not going to happen.
 
155mm Arty units were, in fact, prepared to use nuclear weapons. Had an interesting convo with my commander (RIP, LTC James) about that. It was a duty given to the junior Lt., because no one wanted to handle the mission for long, and the chances of actually using the damned things was so remote no one took it seriously.
 
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WarNerd       9/14/2009 5:30:38 AM

Given the extremely low yield of the warhead these nukes supposedly packed, and that you could fire one over 88km at max gun tube elevation, you would be pretty safe from harm.  Particularly if your driver had the sense to haul ass the other direction right after you fired.

An M1 can fire a round 88km (55 miles) at maximum elevation?
 
Someone must have pulled your leg until it came off.
 
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DocWIN0    PRP Certified   12/10/2009 2:16:09 PM
I don't ever see it happening due to several factors...
 
1. The insecurity of the weapon on such a mobile and relatively easy to destroy platform; rolling dirty-bombs on the field.
2. PRP handling considerations...and if you don't know what PRP is, you have never been remotely close to a nuke.

Hell, i guess those two reasons are enough.
 
 
Back away from the 'Halo" games...slowly.
 
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ens. jack    Tungsten   12/13/2009 10:01:49 AM
This doesnt apply to the tac nuke discussion, but arent a lot of du weapons deing replaced with tungsten rounds? I know the vulcan phalanx ciws system is, but thats just 20mm rounds. Supposedly, the tungsten rounds are heavier, cheaper and easier to form anyway.
 
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