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Subject: Defenseless Enemies are Fun! - Analysis of the Raid on Syria
RockyMTNClimber    10/5/2007 1:13:36 PM
I have been thinking about the recent Israeli raid on Syria and I have come to some questions: Israel probably had to have Turkish help to operate along the border area without sending off Turkish alarms, US ostensibly signed off on the program and some have postulated the intellegence actually might have been US generated, so.....is there any chance that US electronic eaves dropping and jamming participated in recent raid on Syrian WMD facilities? The possibility exists since the US control the eastern Iraq/Syrian border area and could have operated any number of ECM type aircraft or land based systems against the Syrians to assist the Israeli's. This would not be generally released to the public but certainly Syria and Iran would know and recieve a loud and clear message. Check Six Rocky ht***tp://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2007/me_israel_10_05.asp Israeli raid caused electronic disruption over wide areas of Syria The lid of secrecy covering the Sept. 6 Israeli air strike into Syria remains tight but one new theory emerging amid the speculation is that the Israeli conducted an electronic warfare exercise in preparation for future strikes or an attack on Iran. Authoritative reports from the Middle East stated that the Israel operation included extensive electronic warfare jamming by aircraft. The Israeli were testing the capabilities of Russian-made air defenses, including both radar and missiles located near Damascus and south of Homs near the Lebanese northern border. The raid was unprecedented in the blanket of jamming and electronic disruption that it caused over wide areas of Syria enroute to the target point, a base near the Euphrates River. The jamming also affected parts of Lebanon and Israel but Syria was able to get a small amount of sensor information from one of its electronic eavesdropping stations and spot the Israeli infiltration. The raid was part of a U.S. “masint” operation according to this theory, referring to the military practice known as measurement and signature intelligence that is designed to learn the chrematistics and capabilities of all weapons in a region that emanate electronic signals. The masint signatures are needed for targeting and for defeating air defense threats. The daring raid would gain valuable intelligence needed for future strikes by both Israel and the United States in the region. The U.S. military is considering attacks on both Syria and Iran to counter infiltration by insurgents and terrorists into Iraq, including the Iranian paramilitaries. Israel could use the data for its battle against Hizbullah and possibly a future strike on Iranian nuclear facilities. Journalist Jack Wheeler raised this idea in a recent report when he stated that the identity of the target, whether nuclear facilities, missiles or Hizbullah terrorists is “not the story.” “The primary point of the attack was not to destroy that target,” Wheeler said. “It was to shut down Syria's Russian air defense system during the attack. Doing so made the attack an incredible success. Syria is shamed and silent. Iran is freaking out in panic. Defenseless enemies are fun.” ht****tp://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2007/me_israel_10_05.asp
 
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displacedjim       10/5/2007 4:23:51 PM
Heh heh heh heh....
 
By the way, that's a totally improper definition of MASINT.  "INTs" are categories of collection, not of analysis like the article implies, and MASINT explicitly does *not* include collecting electronic signals.
 
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Softwar    It Ain't Over Yet - Israel Braces for Syrian Retaliation   10/5/2007 4:29:24 PM
 
Israel braces for Syrian response
 
Israel is preparing for a Syrian response to the 6 September raid in northeast Syria, after both countries confirmed that the attack took place.
 
Israeli intelligence agencies are mostly concerned that the Syrian response will be in the form of a terror attack on an Israeli target around the world. Israeli official delegations worldwide and airlines were ordered to increase precautions, recalling the Syrian attempt to bomb an El-Al flight from London to Tel Aviv in 1986.
 
"I believe that the Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad would rather act through proxies, such as terrorist organisation, than test his army in war against Israel," former Israel Defence Force (IDF) Chief of Staff, Lieutenant-General Moshe Ya'alon told Jane's.
 
Indeed, when asked by the British Broadcasting Corporation if he intends to retaliate against Israel, Syria's President Assad said: "Retaliate does not mean missile for missile and bomb for bomb. We have our means to retaliate, maybe politically, maybe in other ways. But we have the right to retaliate."
 
 
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displacedjim       10/5/2007 4:40:26 PM

Heh heh heh heh....

 

By the way, that's a totally improper definition of MASINT.  "INTs" are categories of collection, not of analysis like the article implies, and MASINT explicitly does *not* include collecting electronic signals.


Clarification:  not *those* kinds of electronic signals (radars and virtually all communications signals).  FISINT is a subcategory of MASINT even though it is a type of communication, but that's not what the article was referring to.
 
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RockyMTNClimber    Hmmmm.....   10/5/2007 4:50:51 PM
Heh heh heh heh....DJ
 
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RockyMTNClimber    I did not do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything. -Bart Simpson   10/5/2007 4:57:52 PM
 
 
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RockyMTNClimber    Who did What to Whom?   10/8/2007 1:37:35 PM
This article from Aviation Week gives us nothing definitive about what systems were used only lots of speculation. A Kuwaiti paper says that US aircraft covered the Israeli's (I doubt that) and that both Syria & Iran are said to be asking Russia what they buy all of that technology for if it can be spoofed. The article also postulates that SA15 Gauntlet systems might have been deployed at the sites.
 
All questions and no answers.
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
 
ht***tp://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/aw100807p2.xml&headline=Israel%20used%20electronic%20attack%20in%20air%20strike%20against%20Syrian%20mystery%20target
 
 

Israel used electronic attack in air strike against Syrian mystery target


Oct 8, 2007

Mysteries still surround Israel’s air strike against Syria. Where was the attack, what was struck and how did Israel’s non-stealthy warplanes fly undetected through the Russian-made air defense radars in Syria?

There also are clues that while the U.S. and Israel are struggling in the broader information war with Islamic fundamentalists, Tel Aviv’s air attack against a “construction site” in northern Syria may mean the two countries are beginning to win some cyberwar battles.

U.S. officials say that close examination of the few details of the mission offers a glimpse of what’s new in the world of sophisticated electronic sleight-of-hand. That said, they fault the Pentagon for not moving more quickly to make cyberwarfare operational and for not integrating the capability into the U.S. military forces faster.

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad said last week that the Israelis struck a building site at Tall al-Abyad just south of the Turkish border on Sept. 6. Press reports from the region say witnesses saw the Israeli aircraft approach from the Mediterranean Sea while others said they found unmarked drop tanks in Turkey near the border with Syria. Israeli defense officials finally admitted Oct. 2 that the Israeli Air Force made the raid.

U.S. aerospace industry and retired military officials indicated the Israelis utilized a technology like the U.S.-developed “Suter” airborne network attack system developed by BAE Systems and integrated into U.S. unmanned aerial vehicle operations by L-3 Communications. Israel has long been adept at using unmanned systems to provoke and spoof Syrian surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems, as far back as the Bekka Valley engagements in 1982.

Air Force officials will often talk about jamming, but the term now involves increasingly sophisticated techniques such as network attack and information warfare. How many of their new electronic attack options were mixed and matched to pull off this raid is not known.

The U.S. version of the system has been at the very least tested operationally in Iraq and Afghanistan in the last year, most likely against insurgent communication networks. The technology allows users to invade communications networks, see what enemy sensors see and even take over as systems administrator so sensors can be manipulated into positions where approaching aircraft can’t be seen, they say. The process involves locating enemy emitters with great precision and then directing data streams into them that can include false targets and misleading messages that allow a number of activities including control.

Clues, both good and unlikely, are found in Middle East press reports. At least one places some responsibility for the attack’s success on the U.S.

After the strike, the Kuwaiti newspaper Al Watan reported that U.S. jets provided aerial cover for Israeli strike aircraft during the attack on Syria. Similar statements of American involvement were made by Egyptian officials after the 1967 and 1973 wars with Israel.

More interesting is the newspaper’s claim that “Russian experts are stud

 
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Jeff_F_F       10/18/2007 12:01:38 PM
Balanced... kinda like how they said for years that office automation wasn't increasing "productivity" because it was balanced by the increasing amount of customer data being managed. As in, once upon a time they only stored basics like name, phone number and address and it was on a card in a file and it took hours to access via sneakernet and days to get the information from central records to any point in the country that might need it via snailmail. And then office automation came along and companies started storing everything and could access it instantly anywhere, but "productivity" didn't increase.
 
So yes, on one level you can focus on the fact that increased data coming in balances increased analysis resulting in a roughly equal chance that any particular piece of data might still be missed. On another level though, there is just not getting around the fact that we are able to process increasingly huge amounts of data, so even though you might miss that one piece of data you might find a dozen other pieces of data that reveal the same picture that would never have been received at all a decade ago.
 
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hiker    Jeff, I agree   11/21/2007 8:21:59 PM

Balanced... kinda like how they said for years that office automation wasn't increasing "productivity" because it was balanced by the increasing amount of customer data being managed. As in, once upon a time they only stored basics like name, phone number and address and it was on a card in a file and it took hours to access via sneakernet and days to get the information from central records to any point in the country that might need it via snailmail. And then office automation came along and companies started storing everything and could access it instantly anywhere, but "productivity" didn't increase.

 

So yes, on one level you can focus on the fact that increased data coming in balances increased analysis resulting in a roughly equal chance that any particular piece of data might still be missed. On another level though, there is just not getting around the fact that we are able to process increasingly huge amounts of data, so even though you might miss that one piece of data you might find a dozen other pieces of data that reveal the same picture that would never have been received at all a decade ago.


Another way to derive the analogy is to say: while it's true that no one ever totally masters the data, it is also true that in a competitive situation one party generally masters the data better than another and that is a great advantage---no matter what level of data-mastery you are dealing with.

In regard to this Israeli raid, it does not seem relevant to Syrian and Iranian interventions in Iraq, which would tend to be infiltrations of small groups of people, key components of IEDs, etc.---not operations guarded by sophisticated electronic defense systems.  In addition, I don't think it will be Israel going after the Iranian nukes.  I read that the U. S. told Israel not to make that the Iranian nuke raid because they lack the capabilities to succeed.  Implied in that statement to me is that we are afraid a failed Israeli raid would mess things up for us.  Anyhow, I think George Bush is going in before his term is over.  To me, this current Israeli raid looks like prep for a US operation on the Iranian nukes.

 
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