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Subject: Triangulation / Direction Finding
Yimmy    11/22/2006 1:18:17 PM
Firstly, I am just infantry and have never been on any signals courses or otherwise been privy to possibly classified informtion, so don't see anything wrong with discussing this here.

Everyone has heard of being "DF'd" by the enemy and having lots of nasties thrown at them as a result, while DF of course stands for Direction Finding.

Now, I was arguing with a signaller friend of mine about it. Obviously him being a signaller I am at a disadvantage, but I am certain I am right.

To triangulate an enemy radio broadcast, you need two landrovers (or other radio reciever set-ups) don't you? He was arguing that you need three recievers to locate the enemy.

I am sure it is two, as if both recievers know each-others location, and both detect the enemy bradcast and find its direction, they form a triangle don't they? This being with two point of the triangle the two recivers, and one corner the enemy broadcast.

Knowing two angles (through knowing their locations and the direcion of the enemy), and knowing one side (being the distance between the two recievers), allows them to find the other two sides (and therefore distance to the enemy). Knowing where they are, and the direction and distance to the enemy, they can plot the enemies location.

Right?
 
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HIPAR       2/1/2007 6:27:39 PM

Accurate DF'ing is done using Time Difference Of Arrival (TDOA) because timing can be measured extremely accurately and can yield far more accurate results.

Is this how lightning detection and locating systems work?

---  CHAS
 
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RockyMTNClimber    DF done right   2/1/2007 6:47:10 PM
Thus it takes three receiveing stations that are synchronized in operation to DF an emitter when using the TDOA technique; however, the results can be very accurate.
 
Thank you for that Jim!
 
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Rocky
 
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KlubMarcus       2/10/2007 1:25:56 AM
Best explanation so far displacedJim!
 
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displacedjim       2/10/2007 9:44:30 AM
I've recently read a little more explanation since my last post, and I think I may still have some details wrong, but I think what I wrote is close to the way at least some systems work to generate immediate DF results.  It appears to me there are two primary methods, one using angle of arrival of the signal to each receiver antenna, the other using time difference of arrival of the signal to pairs of receiver antennas.  But I've read that some systems used for long-range detection (of aircraft, for example) need three receivers just to get a two-dimensional fix in azimuth and range, and actually require four if you also want to determine altitude of the emitter.  Furthermore, while some systems can get quite precise in azimuth and range to the emitter (as in within a degree and a few thousand feet when it's two hundred miles away), altitutde is more difficult to pin down since it can also be off by many thousands of feet (which is probably only going to varying over a range of maybe 50,000 feet to begin with).
 
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TrustButVerify       3/8/2007 9:02:42 AM

I've recently read a little more explanation since my last post, and I think I may still have some details wrong, but I think what I wrote is close to the way at least some systems work to generate immediate DF results.  It appears to me there are two primary methods, one using angle of arrival of the signal to each receiver antenna, the other using time difference of arrival of the signal to pairs of receiver antennas.  But I've read that some systems used for long-range detection (of aircraft, for example) need three receivers just to get a two-dimensional fix in azimuth and range, and actually require four if you also want to determine altitude of the emitter.  Furthermore, while some systems can get quite precise in azimuth and range to the emitter (as in within a degree and a few thousand feet when it's two hundred miles away), altitutde is more difficult to pin down since it can also be off by many thousands of feet (which is probably only going to varying over a range of maybe 50,000 feet to begin with).

Garden-variety DFing (such as ham radio foxhunting) usually considers two plots to be sufficient if using bidirectional antennas. It's interesting to note that the intersecting-spheres system you described above is exactly how GPS works- only in reverse, as it's one receiver making phase-difference calculations from multiple transmitters..
 
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