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Subject: Australian OTH Radar system gets funding boost
gf0012-aust    2/24/2004 4:18:22 AM
The Federal Government plans to spend $62 million upgrading the controversial over-the-horizon-radar system to better detect missiles, distant ships and aircraft.

Defence Minister Robert Hill announced the upgrade of the Jindalee radar in a speech that was gatecrashed by anti-war protesters.

Delegates at the defence congress in Canberra were showered with anti-war leaflets and one protester banged cymbals and marched onto the stage singing the Grand Old Duke of York.

The protester called delegates warmongers.

Senator Hill said Australia was world leader in over-the-horizon radar technology and US officials specifically mentioned their interest in the Jindalee operational radar network, known as JORN, during recent talks on missile defence .

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Maybe we can do a ToT for some F-22's ;)



 
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northernguy    RE:Australian OTH Radar system gets funding boost   3/25/2004 2:32:28 PM
What's controversial about upgrading a defensive radar? Surely, if its the money involved it would be more appropriate to complain about the cost of the ships and planes rather than the radars to defend the assets and the lives of their crews. Northernguy
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:Australian OTH Radar system gets funding boost   3/25/2004 5:47:14 PM
It's more controversial in the sense of offending our neighbours like Indonesia. But, considering the fact that they have just purchased a Thales/Raytheon system which only looks "east", then I'm wondering whether any of our diplomats have had the courage to say "so, your's is facing east, how come??" ;)
 
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northernguy    RE:Australian OTH Radar system gets funding boost...gf0012-aust .. .   3/31/2004 6:26:23 PM
gf0012-aust writes that objections to Australia getting over the horizon radar is that Indonesia might be concerned about Australian intentions. He also writes that Indonesia has recently purchased the same type radar that is focused on Australia. Does the Australian government allow such considerations as Indonesia's objections actually enter into discussions of such innocuous purchases? Countries can make the case that some capabilities are inherently threatening like nukes or ballistic missiles that only have the range to reach their territory. But allowing a potential enemy's sensitivities to influence a choice of radar types? Hard to believe! Establishing a permanent fixture of such radars in East Timor..Yes, cause for concern. But on your own ships or territory.. who cares what Indonesia, or anyone else for that matter, thinks about it!! In fact, a persuasive argument in favour if such countries object. Northernguy
 
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friend2all    RE:Australian OTH Radar system gets funding boost...gf0012-aust .. .   3/31/2004 7:11:37 PM
Yeah, maybe they are right, you know? How about, in order to be gracious and neighborly, we hold onto that pesky radar for you in, oh, Hawaii? Or... maybe on the southern tip of South Korea. Really, what crap. But, what do you expect from those types. "Yeah, we should poke our eyes out... for peace! And support the Palesinians, who are being unfairly hindered in their mission to put schrapnel through children!" I live near San Francisco and, when I had to drive past protesters, telling me to go home on strike, while our boys were heading for danger to protect us, it was tempting... Thank God for the few brave souls out there every day who were supporting our troops with their signs and hearts. I hope they managed to kidney punch one or two of those freaking commie/anarchist punks when nobody was looking. Anyway, how about faxing us over a copy of them radar blueprints, you know, whenever you have a minute...
 
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gf0012-aust    Australian OTH Radar system gets funding boost...gf0012-aust .. .   3/31/2004 7:48:31 PM
Australia has the habit of consulting with all of regional neighbours (typically, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, PhilippinesChina and Japan) whenever we are about to make a significant policy shift or a purchase shift.. We advised our neighbours on the F111G purchases, Radar issues, JSF etc..) It's part of the mindset of saying to our neighbours that we have nothing to hide and that we aren't a big bad latent colonial WASP nation. I can underdstand the logic of it (similar to how the asian neighbours react to Japans purchases), but I think we have gone too far. A few of them don't extend the same courtesy to us (certainly China doesn't!). We have substantial intel interaction with all of the regions security entities - and I'd argue that we have easier and closer access than the US does, which the US does recognise and tends to see a capacity to stay "outside" of regional discussions. Discussing and sharing terrorist, refugee and piracy issues is far different from telling everybody about major asset acquisitions in advance. (even if it is only 48hrs before a public announcement) I'd be doing it less (hardware discussions) in light of the current climate.
 
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northernguy    RE:Australian OTH Radar system gets funding boost...gf0012-aust .. .   3/31/2004 8:24:30 PM
good point gf0012-aust. I hadn't quite looked at it that way. In our case we don't have any neighbours that we have to consult except for one. With them its a case of them trying to convince us to purchase or allow various weapon systems preferably from their supplies. We have only to accept or decline. Any weapons systems purchases by ourselves even from their competitors is welcomed with sighs of relief. I can understand alerting neighbours to purchase of systems for the reasons that you have described. Nothing wrong with being polite. But its hard for me to get my head around having much concern about their reaction. Bombers..yes. Radars ..no! Northernguy
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:Australian OTH Radar system gets funding boost...gf0012-aust .. .   3/31/2004 8:55:15 PM
The radar issue is because the stated range (3500km's) is actually substantially more, and obscenely long when weather is aberrant (as is the nature of the ionosphere) so, we can see everyones aircraft taking off, landing, moving if we want to. The australian surveillance network is actually quite sophisticated and probably the longest range of any ground based system in the world - hence US interest. Understandably, there are some who object to our capacity to act as long range traffic surveyors. Australia and the US have a "partnering" arrangment where we share geospatial, surveillance and other electronic gathering capability under a programme names Operation Dundee. Some of that capability means that we can see bushfires in Indonesia - or any other intense thermal image.
 
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Ex98C    RE:Australian OTH Radar system gets funding boost   3/31/2004 9:17:39 PM
GF, I"m assuming that it is an early warning system? with possibly some limited tracking capability? I know the US was looking at OTH radars 10-15 years ago but there were questions about its reliability..that it would pick up some targets sometimes but not consistantly
 
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northernguy    RE:Australian OTH Radar system gets funding boost...gf0012-aust .. .   3/31/2004 9:25:15 PM
Now that's what I call powerful radar. Northernguy
 
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macawman    RE:Australian OTH Radar system gets funding boost...gf0012-aust .. .   3/31/2004 10:42:58 PM
Initially, I think the one of the reasons why the US partially funded this Jindilee OTH system in Australia is because of less electronic clutter in that hemisphere. Lockeed Electronics was part of the Jindilee program back when it all started in 1990 near Alice Springs station. According to Jane's four of these narrow beam OTH stations are on line through out the four corners of Australia with the RAAF base at Salisbury, S Aus. as the coordination center. Morres Law of increasing computer power/software is the primary factor of why this system can discriminate OTH backscatter ionosphere targets better than earlier 20 to 40 MW OTH technology ie.the Soviet 'Boomer' OTH..
 
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