An article about RPGs and the M1

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title Newest to Oldest

Pages: PREV 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT

Usul RE:I believe you missed the man's point 7/29/2004 10:13:36 PM

Mike Golf: I've just finished Thunder Run, and wanted to get your take on the author's accuracy. From my layman's viewpoint, it seemed horrifically real, but that's not worth much. I guess the biggest surprise in the entire book was the supply convoys. I couldn't imagine being in that unit heading up the highways.

Quote Reply

mike_golf RE:I believe you missed the man's point 7/30/2004 1:11:11 AM

Hey Usul, Awesome book, very realistic and accurate. The author obviously, from my point of view, did a great job of researching it.

Quote Reply

AlbanyRifles Usul 7/30/2004 8:55:10 AM

I have not read the book yet (believe it or not, I have had a hard time getting my hands on a copy....plus my Civil War reading list is horribly long) but I have read just about every official and non official US Army report as well as talked to a couple of folks who were there. You bring up a great point and one which the outside of SP and DOD sites is totally missed in the mainstream media (what a shock)...that is the incredible heroism and dedication shown by the combat service support soldiers in OIF, from MAR 03 to today. I made some rants onthe Leadership board about the lack of leadership in the 507 MT CO. But I believe what we can see is that the leadership within the vast majority of US (that's Amry, Marine & Air Force) CSS is exemplary. These men and women from corporal through LTC are showing great combat leadership and getting the supplies forward so the combat troops can keep fighting. An infantry battalion XO I spoke to recently told me something very telling. You have to understand, this guy looks like a walking clothing sales store, with every "scare badge" int the Army's inventory on his uniform. He has a star on his CIB, and has his choice of which one of 4 combat patches he can wear on his reight sleeve. He told me the bravest soldier he has ever seen was a 5 foot 0 inch 98 pound female specialist who drove a 5,000 gallon fuel truck through a hail of MG and RPG fire. HE said she hoppe dout of her cab, threw him a salute, and said "That sucked, sir!", smiled and then began to refill the fuel HEMMTs of his battalion. She was the drive from the MSB whcih was keeping his task force supplied. He told me the reason that stuck in his mind was that is because it has happened on a daily basis for over a year.

Quote Reply

Usul RE:Usul 7/31/2004 9:53:35 AM

I agree about the heroism. If I were in an M1 or BFV, I'd have felt fairly safe. But these folks were driving trucks. Un-armored fuel and ammo trucks. That takes an entirely different type of bravery and trust in your escort. After reading this one account of the heroism and bravery of the logistics folks, I'm simply in awe.

Quote Reply

scase RE:An old dog can learn new tricks - Adamantine 8/5/2004 9:57:56 AM

Another thing I would point out is that the Merkava was built to protect Israel from attack, and the design shows this. Israel is a small country with limited strategic depth. Israeli armor doesn't have to travel great distances to reach the danger zones, so mobility isn't a huge concern. The Merkava can ditch the extra mobility in favor of heavier armor. In a more open battle the Merkava would be in trouble as it wouldn't have the mobility to counter faster moving forces. The Merkava is like the old heavy tanks of the past like the German Tigers, the British Churchills, and the Russian JS. They had great armor and excellent (except for the Brit heavy) firepower. However they were very slow and lacked off road mobility. That limited their ability to function in mobile warfare. They worked best when on the defensive or as the point vehicles in a major set-piece assault (where they would have been prepositioned to lead the attack). As it has turned out, the Merkava is the right tank for the urban sprawls in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank, and it would work well in a mass tank melee against the Syrians in the northern hills. However, I think the Israelis would have had a rough time with the huge sweeping maneuvers and armored thrusts that where typical in both the Gulf Wars fought by the Abrams. Between the two tanks, the Merkava might be thinker skinned, however I think the M-1 is the more flexable. The Merkava was built as a defensive weapon, while the M-1 was built with offensive operations in mind. It's really up to what you want your tank to do...

Quote Reply

holy invoker RE:An old dog can learn new tricks--mikegolf 8/6/2004 7:23:13 PM

"Heavy armor and mechanized infantry can go into an urban environment and take on light infantry, and come out on top. 2nd Bde, 3ID demonstrated that, with appropriate tactics, modern armored formations can fight, survive and win in urban environments" Yes they would be able to win against cold war-era unguided RPG that dates backs to the 1960's and the old Ak-47, but how would the "armoured columns" fair against a modern equipped army with KORNET, modern anti-tank mines and most importantly non-DOWNGRADED t-72 tanks with the inability to fire the Russian tank missile. Moreover, congratulations your air-force has been able to defeat SAM technology that dates back to Vietnam, giving air superiority against downgraded Migs, and old ones as well. I don?t think the odds will fair up as well as was evident.

Quote Reply

mike_golf RE:An old dog can learn new tricks--mikegolf 8/6/2004 7:30:22 PM

How do you plan to use Kornets, modern anti-tank mines, etc. in an urban environment? Or those tank launched ATGM's? The weapon of choice in Baghdad for the tank crews was the coax machinegun and the MPAT round because of the short distances involved. All of the weapons you are talking about require reasonable minimum flights before being effective. The Bradley's chaingun and the Abrams M2HB .50 cal were also used to great effect, and the 120mm auto-mortars in a direct fire role. Very few TOW missiles and APFSDS penetrators were fired in Baghdad, for good reason. Funny how the Russian Army, with the weapons you mentioned, up against insurgents armed with RPG's, did not fare nearly as well in Grozny. Combination of poor operational art and technology led to the problem.

Quote Reply

old-one RE:An old dog can learn new tricks--mikegolf 11/24/2004 7:16:18 PM

The following text is taken directly from: The Wars Against Saddam, Taking The Hard Road to Baghdad by John Simpson. Published by Pan Books. ISBN 0 330 41890 4 On the morning of the following day, Saturday 5 April, an extraordinary mistake by the Americans turned into a major portent of the coming victory. A support column from the 3rd Infantry Division, coming up from the south, was supposed to drive around the city to the west, heading for the airport to re-supply the troops there. The soldiers on board were not combat troops; they were mechanics, cooks, medics: very much the same kind of people who had been in Private Jessica Lynch?s convoy when it was ambushed. And, in a disturbing repeat of that episode, the column took the wrong turning and headed straight for the centre of Baghdad. If there had been any concerted opposition in the city, they would never have made it. But the idea that Saddam Hussein?s forces would draw the Americans into the city and destroy them was shown to be nothing more than an Iraqi PR fantasy. When the line of dots, each representing an American vehicle, appeared on the wall-mounted plasma screens of the Blue Force Tracker system at Joint Operations Centre in Doha, there was an audible intake of breath from the American controllers. But their nerve held. The order was given to the column to head on to Qadisya, on the left bank of the Tigris, then turn sharp west and head for the airport. It was absolutely the right thing to do: by stopping and turning around, Jessica Lynch?s commander had shown that he was nervous and lost; the 3rd Infantry support column looked as though it knew exactly where it was going. It reached the airport in safety. The Americans could now stage what they called ?an armed reconnaissance?: a fast drive right into the centre by a force of twenty-five Abrams tanks and twelve Bradley fighting vehicles. They headed into the outer suburb of al-Dawra, where Sddam?s daughter Raghad had her farm, retracing the route the supply column had taken, and firing as they went. They too looped around, then returned to the airport. I personally found the book to be a fascinating read. Apologies that the extract is somewhat long.

Quote Reply

Galderio RE:An old dog can learn new tricks--mikegolf 11/26/2004 9:19:58 AM

I can not understand why some people like to compare Chechens with Iraqs. Just because the urban warfare?. To me there are to very difent situations.

Quote Reply

rikopotomous RE:An article about RPGs and the M1 11/27/2004 12:18:30 PM

wow. you took the words out of my mouth. I have been saying the same thing about the tank tactics we've been using in Iraq for about 4 months now. My father also said the same exact thing about Colin Powell starting a year and half ago lol...great minds think alike ehh?

Quote Reply

PREV 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT