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Subject: Russian T90 vs. US M1A2 Abrams
achtpanz    6/14/2004 3:59:14 AM
Russian T90 vs American M1A2 Abrams - Which is better? If these tanks fought in battle, which would suffer more casualties, which one is superior? What are their advantages? Any information would be helpful.
 
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Buzz       3/24/2011 10:09:43 AM
Coldstart, Thought you might find the following interesting. BTW most of the bearings for the russian armys tanks and aircraft engines during WW2 were made in Baltumore.
 
After World War 1, many-an-army around the world elected to concentrate on light tank technology for their easy-to-produce, less-expensive qualities. The British had their Vickers 6-ton series while the French found success with their FT-17. The United States, Italy, Japan and the Soviet Union saw fit to purchase existing systems to add to their respective inventories. The Soviets, however, took to modifying base forms into Soviet-inspired mounts and developed all-new light tanks - several key pieces based on the designs of American engineer J. Walter Christie. Christie unsuccessfully attempted to sell his work to the US Army but found takers in Britain and the Soviet Union. His "Christie Suspension" system became world-renowned and was used in several famous tank designs of World War 2 including the Crusader, the Comet, the BT series fast tank and the T-34 medium tank.
 
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GeorgeSPatton    Found it   3/24/2011 11:00:13 AM




George,

The vehicle chassis on the picture I posted appears to be the same as an SA-6  but the turret in the background is the cofusing part. Woulder if it is a local varient since its been so long since libya has been allowed to buy new toys.




Found it, its not a tank at all, its an SP gun.  (The chassis has too many wheels for an SA-6, BTW.)
 
Palmaria SPHhttp://www.military-today.com/artillery/palmaria.jpg" width="600" longdesc="Palmaria self-propelled howitzer" height="401" />
 
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/palmaria_l2.jpg" width="500" height="302" alt="" />
 
The Italians made it specifically for export, which explains why the Libyans have it.
 
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GeorgeSPatton       3/24/2011 11:13:05 AM

GeorgeSPatton: it doesnt matter for me how far anyone is from me.
 
I'd be willing to bet a sizeable amount of money that you would not have said what you said to me had I been standing right in front of you.  I know of several not-very nice people who would probably cause physical harm to you if you had said something similar to their faces.  I was merely pointing out that in the future you should choose your words more carefully instead of responding rashly.
 
 And i did not say anything bad, just put an analogy, to make things look fair. 

FYI, don't do it by comparing a 500lb. laser-guided bomb to a nuclear ballistic missile.  They aren't even close to the same thing and if you are pretending they are then you are the one who is, as you said, "looking through pink glasses"
 
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Buzz       3/24/2011 11:44:40 AM
Thanks for the info George. I knew it had to be an SP but couldnt identify the Turret. Should have also counted the road wheels.
I had to laugh at myself because I had assumed the reporters had gotten the vehicle type right this time. They still sometimes ID Bradleys as tanks.
 
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SantaClaws       3/24/2011 12:24:40 PM



BTW Buzz, do you know "LT" Sparks? You should get with him. You two can have your little circle jerk of delusion together. Although I am compelled to believe you are him.

Don't get your panties in a wad. BTW when did the army stop putting padlocks on armored vehicle doors?




Since you can't answer those simple 3 questions I'll just assume you were never in the Army or you spent 10 years as a private and never got promoted. And I was being serious. You and Sparks will love each other. You two can discuss antiquated tactics and technology like the 113.
 
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SantaClaws       3/24/2011 1:41:20 PM
Buzz, it doesn't take a lot for people who actually serve to see through your bullshit. When you say things like soldiers were forced to sign for Strykers (there is no Stryker MOS so the only way to get Strykers is to based at Ft Lewis), or that you work on military comms but say FBCB2 is line of sight, you say you worked on tanks but don't know the MLC of the Abrams and constantly talk about the same roll over accident(ironic),you can't answer simple promotion board questions but "served 10 years", then it's pretty obvious you've never served a single day in the Army. So cut the bullshit. At least the Afghans have honor. You're just a piece of shit liar trying to be something you're not.
 
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Buzz       3/24/2011 3:49:43 PM

Buzz, it doesn't take a lot for people who actually serve to see through your bullshit. When you say things like soldiers were forced to sign for Strykers (there is no Stryker MOS so the only way to get Strykers is to based at Ft Lewis), or that you work on military comms but say FBCB2 is line of sight, you say you worked on tanks but don't know the MLC of the Abrams and constantly talk about the same roll over accident(ironic),you can't answer simple promotion board questions but "served 10 years", then it's pretty obvious you've never served a single day in the Army. So cut the bullshit. At least the Afghans have honor. You're just a piece of shit liar trying to be something you're not.

Plez end the childishness. You've proven yourself to be a total dumbass who hasn't added not one wit to the conversation except to show you you are truly clueless. You sound like my exwife. Your real name wouldnt be Sherry would it?
I spent 10 years in the army unf@cking everything guys like you screwed up and I'm still doing it. You break expensive things on purpose so you will get a new one with fresh paint.
 
You're to young to know anything older than 2-3 years and because of that you extrapolate your extremely limited knowledge base into things you are not familiar with so as to try to sound more intelligent than you actually are. Although Coldstart and I have allowed our conversations to degrade at times, I value what he has been saying much more that of anything you have said. Please go down to the local bar and try to impress your buddies with your vast storehouse of worldly knowledge.
 
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SantaClaws       3/24/2011 9:52:15 PM



Buzz, it doesn't take a lot for people who actually serve to see through your bullshit. When you say things like soldiers were forced to sign for Strykers (there is no Stryker MOS so the only way to get Strykers is to based at Ft Lewis), or that you work on military comms but say FBCB2 is line of sight, you say you worked on tanks but don't know the MLC of the Abrams and constantly talk about the same roll over accident(ironic),you can't answer simple promotion board questions but "served 10 years", then it's pretty obvious you've never served a single day in the Army. So cut the bullshit. At least the Afghans have honor. You're just a piece of shit liar trying to be something you're not.



Plez end the childishness. You've proven yourself to be a total dumbass who hasn't added not one wit to the conversation except to show you you are truly clueless. You sound like my exwife. Your real name wouldnt be Sherry would it?


I spent 10 years in the army unf@cking everything guys like you screwed up and I'm still doing it. You break expensive things on purpose so you will get a new one with fresh paint.

 

You're to young to know anything older than 2-3 years and because of that you extrapolate your extremely limited knowledge base into things you are not familiar with so as to try to sound more intelligent than you actually are. Although Coldstart and I have allowed our conversations to degrade at times, I value what he has been saying much more that of anything you have said. Please go down to the local bar and try to impress your buddies with your vast storehouse of worldly knowledge.


You say I have 2-3 years of experience AFTER I told you I rode in M113s when they were still around. Again, WHERE do you get your information from or does your math just suck that bad?
 
Another thing that just jumps out to me that you've never served is that you mention the pad locks. When has the Army EVER secured vehicle doors with pad locks, especially from the OUTSIDE? When has ANY military vehicle been secured from the outside? I'll ask you something easier since you have such worldly Army knowledge. What do the keys to the Humvee look like?
 
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ColdStart       3/24/2011 9:56:01 PM

Coldstart, Thought you might find the following interesting. BTW most of the bearings for the russian armys tanks and aircraft engines during WW2 were made in Baltumore.

 

After World War 1, many-an-army around the world elected to concentrate on light tank technology for their easy-to-produce, less-expensive qualities. The British had their Vickers 6-ton series while the French found success with their FT-17. The United States, Italy, Japan and the Soviet Union saw fit to purchase existing systems to add to their respective inventories. The Soviets, however, took to modifying base forms into Soviet-inspired mounts and developed all-new light tanks - several key pieces based on the designs of American engineer J. Walter Christie. Christie unsuccessfully attempted to sell his work to the US Army but found takers in Britain and the Soviet Union. His "Christie Suspension" system became world-renowned and was used in several famous tank designs of World War 2 including the Crusader, the Comet, the BT series fast tank and the T-34 medium tank.

I do know about Christie. And about BT. The primary concept of BT was to be able to use it on the roads of europe for fast transportation, BT had capability to get rid of tracks and move on wheels, what significantly improved speed, and also range. The BT was not intended for defensive war on USSR territory, even thou it was used for that alot at the beginning. IS-2 tanks did much better in that. And also, a tank killer SU-100 which was incredibly good at that time, it could take out any tank from first shot.
 
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heraldabc       3/24/2011 11:17:48 PM
The SU-100 was LATE war (1945), you buffoon, and an unnecessary waste of time and resources. God, you don't even know your own nation's history.
 
H. 
 
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