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Subject: Russian T90 vs. US M1A2 Abrams
achtpanz    6/14/2004 3:59:14 AM
Russian T90 vs American M1A2 Abrams - Which is better? If these tanks fought in battle, which would suffer more casualties, which one is superior? What are their advantages? Any information would be helpful.
 
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GeorgeSPatton    earlm   4/12/2011 2:33:33 PM

Let's try to get the thread on track again.  Any guesses as to the make up of armor packages of the supertanks?  It's not an OPSEC issue unless you know the answer.  There' some interesting things that show the difference in tech between the West and the Rest.

  Sorry about that, I guess I let Cold get under my skin more than I thought.

M1:  Lots of ceramics, optimized against CE.  Later models introduced DU strike faces against KE.


Leopard 2:  Perforated armor is optimized against KE.  Later models introduced the highly angled plates that can snap a dart and provide standoff against CE.
 
I was suprised when I first found out that the Leo 2 doesn't have Chobham.  Does anyone know how their perforated armour does compared to Chobham?
Challenger:  What is Dorchester?

 Not much info about it on the net that I could find.  If gf0012-aust or mike_golf are around they may be able to provide some more specific description, but my understanding of Dorchester is that it is lighter than the DU stuff we use with the Abrams and more AP resistent.

T-72 and updated T-72 (so called T-90):  Lots of steel, some space and some fiberglass cloth that is surprisingly good.

The Russians have always done a really good job of making the best of poor materials and technology:  e.g. they don't have fly-by wire they come up with wired control surfaces for the MiG-29 that equal the F-16; they don't have Chobham, so they come up with their own composite-esqe materials that do a pretty decent job themselves.





 
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ColdStart       4/12/2011 4:54:26 PM

Well, you're obviously not interested in real debate, so there's no reason why I should be.


OH REALLY? LOL each time when you start some discussion with me, and i start putting facts and explanations you try to get away with jokes... like that example with AK47 not being able to penetrate american soldiers body :)
 
Right after the discussin of mobile air defense systems...where you thrown out statement, i gave you explanation, and you just ignored it... thats kind of a not fair tactics. either discuss. or then just dont mess with me.... why to start and then lean off the topic.
 
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ColdStart       4/12/2011 5:00:47 PM




kid what else you wanna know? my grades at school maybe? driving license class? you are already out and basically dont know which question to ask or which action to take in order to distract attention from me pointing out your poor education. 

 

Listen kiddo, I have been patient with you to the point of idiocy, and you have thrown it all back in my face time and time again.  You have proven that you are a hypocrite and will consistently contradict things you posted several pages ago (as I have already proven many times).  You criticize my age and education, yet you refuse to provide any credentials of your own (I couldn't care less about your grades.  In the real world, no one cares if you got an A in your high school physics class.).  Your "military facts" are nothing more than the same Russian fanboy propaganda that has been around for years.  Thus far you have only proven yourself to be a racist, a supremist, and quite frankly, a fool.  I have had it with you.  You have nothing whatsoever to add to this discussion.
yeah... you all have better things to do. go ahead and do that :)



I do have better things to do.  My facts are solid, yours are not.  I have credibility, you do not.  Thus concludes this wonderful little debate.  Good day to you, bud.



See you asked me not to use bad words in discussion with you maybe 60 messages ago. And i did not use them. Now you called me fool. Now you want to escape from debate. And THAT IS what clearly shows your real kiddish nature. But i'll take that and stil not go hard against you. Ill let the external observers judge your actions and your words here. You tried to show that you know principles of radar, but failed. You tried to show your technical education, you failed. Then you tried lean off the topic. and then by yourself tried even to close it. Ill not insist. Afterall you are just silly kid :) For these 4 weeks at least you could read some introduction radio book or something, and not act like 14 years old (at that age i already had a hands on experience with equipment). But no... i guess your hobby is playing computer, bragging on internet and watching hollywood hero movies, from time to time some Discovery like channels maybe. And then here online show off. :) nice :) Your posts are nothing but compilations from here and there. As is the case with many other members here.





 
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ColdStart    ok   4/12/2011 5:11:42 PM
and one more thing for you George, im not racist or anything else. Its not me who had this attitude to USA, its some of members here who did, especially Kevbo who called us bloodthirsty rapists etc... I never said any shit like that towards your country. And never expressed hate in any form to it, as some other members try to point out.
 
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Nichevo    OK vote   4/12/2011 5:17:44 PM
He burnt me out, but then again, I am Nichevo.  He burnt out Herald; he burnt out every warfighter who tried to talk with him with IRL experience; now he burnt out GF, who is not even American.
 
So vote.  Who wants to SYSOP him, and who wants to ignore him to death?  Or who still wants to play?
 
In his defense...he has contributed valuable information on...
 
well...what has Comrade Billy "ColdStart" Madison contributed?
 
Anyone?  Bueller?
 
I think this sums it up:
 
Principal...: Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
 
So I was just minding my business but now I have to speak up:  DNFTT.
 
Little Russian boy, go home and play with your crystals.  Nobody here likes you anymore.  Like Russia, you have no friends.
 
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Nichevo    Oh and   4/12/2011 5:22:28 PM
don't bother to reply.  Notification for this thread is now OFF and if you write Anna Karenina in your defense nobody will read it.  Do svidaniya, bashka.
 
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SantaClaws       4/12/2011 6:06:41 PM




OH REALLY? LOL each time when you start some discussion with me, and i start putting facts and explanations you try to get away with jokes... like that example with AK47 not being able to penetrate american soldiers body :)


The only facts and explanations I've gotten from you is that if the Russians use it then it must be obsolete, not work as advertised and overrated by Russian fanboys. At least that's what you said.
 
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SantaClaws       4/12/2011 6:12:57 PM
And you're the one who said the Ak47 is a useless rifle. I just agreed with you. It's indicative of everything else produced by Russia. They can't get a simple 50+ year old rifle right, and you expect us to believe they can build tanks and planes? HAH!
 
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earlm       4/12/2011 6:15:37 PM
The FBR board is known for low/no moderation and was allowed by SYSOPS to be ruined until most of the regulars not only stopped posting but stopped visiting for several months.  The Armor board HAD a repuation for tight moderation which is obviously gone.
 
1.  Ban Coldstart and point him in the direction of Key Publishing so he can get what he needs there and won't try and get back in here.
 
2.  Police claims about military service/DefPro status a bit so we can ID the pretenders (if there are any).
 
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GeorgeSPatton    Nichevo   4/12/2011 6:18:11 PM
I'm all for ignoring him for now.  He can be pretty entertaining sometimes, and sometimes he does spark some interesting debate between others who know what they are talking about.
Besides, there's nothing he can say in defense of Russian tanks or radar or whatever he thinks he has knowledge about that can help his case.
 
Any guesses as to his real age and education level?
 
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