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Subject: M113 Thrives In Old Age
SYSOP    7/19/2014 5:39:29 AM
 
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avatar3    Just Amazing   7/19/2014 7:13:19 AM
Just amazing what can be done with a bunch of old boxes! :7)
 
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trenchsol       7/19/2014 8:24:23 AM
Does M-113 protect passengers from .50 cal machine gun round ? How about 14.5 mm ?
Could HEAT round ignite the hull ? Aluminum can catch fire at high temperatures.
 
 
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avatar3    TrenchSol   7/19/2014 12:00:02 PM
:7)
 
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trenchsol       7/19/2014 12:27:48 PM
Thanks avatar3, it seems the vehicle is .50cal proof without additional armor.
 
 
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HR    M-113   7/21/2014 1:43:37 PM
I have seen pictures of these vehicles with so many bullet holes that they looked like Swiss cheese. It does not have the greatest armour protection. It is also slow too; it can't flee.
 
It is still used behind the front lines and in some countries it is a front line vehicle as long as the enemy is a ragged guerrilla force on foot but it definitively has limits.
 
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joe6pack       7/21/2014 2:13:24 PM
Fuel tank is also a prominent feature in the troop compartment...  Can't say I was a fan.
But as APC's go, it was fairly roomy.. not a bad ambulance or some of the other support roles it's been modified for.
 
 
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JFKY    M-113   7/21/2014 3:35:21 PM
Aluminum can catch fire at high temperatures
 
No it does NOT....it may be more thermally sensitive & slump more easily but it doesn't "burn."  Aluminum is stiffer than steel, meaning that the M-113, with aluminum, is lighter than if it were made of steel, it is about 6% lighter than if it were an all steel platform. 
 
I don't think the M-113 is proof to .50 caliber rounds, though....but it's NOT a combat vehicle, it's a battle taxi...it is designed to bring the infantry into proximity of the enemy, debus the rifle section who close on foot.  It's not designed to roll into a defended hedgehog & shrug off fire.
 
On the M-113a2 (????) the fuel tanks are NOT in the crew compartment, but are on the outside rear of the vehicle.  It increases survivability. 
 
The M-113 is a very nice weapon for it's era...it was not designed to be a BMP- or a Marder, it was designed to provide splinter-proof transport for an infantry rifle section.
 
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joe6pack    JFKY   7/21/2014 9:10:08 PM
"On the M-113a2 (????) the fuel tanks are NOT in the crew compartment, but are on the outside rear of the vehicle"
 
I believe you are correct, but the original and A1 were internal - in the troop compartment area, unless my memory has totally failed in old age, they were. 
 
"I don't think the M-113 is proof to .50 caliber rounds, though"
 
I think the official line is that it will stop .50 AP on the frontal armor only, .50 ball on the sides..   Personally, I wouldn't want to put it to the test.  I'm sort of reminded of a line from the Patton movie when asking if the half track armor stopped enemy mg rounds.. the private answered, yes sir.. The bullets went through on one side, and then just rattled around on the inside for a bit. 
 
 
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WarNerd       7/22/2014 1:26:15 AM



Aluminum can catch fire at high temperatures

 

No it does NOT....it may be more thermally sensitive & slump more easily but it doesn't "burn."  Aluminum is stiffer than steel, meaning that the M-113, with aluminum, is lighter than if it were made of steel, it is about 6% lighter than if it were an all steel platform. 

 

I don't think the M-113 is proof to .50 caliber rounds, though....but it's NOT a combat vehicle, it's a battle taxi...it is designed to bring the infantry into proximity of the enemy, debus the rifle section who close on foot.  It's not designed to roll into a defended hedgehog & shrug off fire.

 

On the M-113a2 (????) the fuel tanks are NOT in the crew compartment, but are on the outside rear of the vehicle.  It increases survivability. 

 

The M-113 is a very nice weapon for it's era...it was not designed to be a BMP- or a Marder, it was designed to provide splinter-proof transport for an infantry rifle section.



 
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WarNerd       7/22/2014 1:58:30 AM
Sorry about the accidental posting.
Aluminum can catch fire at high temperatures
 
No it does NOT....it may be more thermally sensitive & slump more easily but it doesn't "burn."  Aluminum is stiffer than steel, meaning that the M-113, with aluminum, is lighter than if it were made of steel, it is about 6% lighter than if it were an all steel platform. 
Aluminum will burn, but it is hard to get started.  You need to use a sustained high temperature, high heat content, source until it catches.  An oxy-acetylene cutting torch of high power electric arc work best.  Incendiary ammo and HEAT rounds won’t light it, not enough heat input.  Hydrocarbon fires won’t, temperature is too low without a forced draft.  I went to an engineering school, saw an aluminum engine block burned at a rally once.  Scary!
 
Aluminum armor is stiffer than steel armor because it is thicker.  Protection is about the same for a given armor weight.  Aluminum is about 1/3 the density of steel and about 1/4 the strength, but at 3x the thickness is twice as stiff.  This allows for a different design, where with light steel armor you have to attach it to the vehicle frame, with aluminum armor the armor can also serve as the vehicle frame to mount the other components on.  Eliminating a separate frame is where the weight savings comes from.
 
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