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Subject: Toss Up! BTR-90 or Stryker?
Guerrilla24    12/4/2007 11:11:13 PM
Which would you choose and why? If I were say, India, I would rather have BTRs. Any thoughts?
 
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Yimmy       12/5/2007 12:38:23 PM
Why just those two vehciles?
 
 
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Herald1234       12/5/2007 12:50:23 PM

Why just those two vehciles?

 


There are French, Italian, British, German, and Finnish vehicles superior to the two types mentioned, so why just those two?  

Herald
 
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Yimmy       12/5/2007 1:09:18 PM




Why just those two vehciles?



 




There are French, Italian, British, German, and Finnish vehicles superior to the two types mentioned, so why just those two?  

Herald


What British vehicle do you have in mind Herald?  Since we left the Boxer program, the only vehicle which springs to mind is Saxon, which is a joke.

 
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Claymore       12/5/2007 3:12:47 PM




Why just those two vehciles?



 




There are French, Italian, British, German, and Finnish vehicles superior to the two types mentioned, so why just those two?  

Herald


Why do you think so lowly of the Stryker? Crews love them
 
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DarthAmerica       12/5/2007 3:30:28 PM
I recently had some Strykers come help me out of a little situation last month. I was pretty impressed with them personally. I know the crews love them. I'd be curious to know what vehicles were better and in what context. Guerrilla24 these questions need to also include the requirements of the operator.
 
-DA
 
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Herald1234       12/5/2007 6:31:48 PM








Why just those two vehciles?





 






There are French, Italian, British, German, and Finnish vehicles superior to the two types mentioned, so why just those two?  

Herald



What British vehicle do you have in mind Herald?  Since we left the Boxer program, the only vehicle which springs to mind is Saxon, which is a joke.



Actually I thought of Boxer and suffered a brain fart as to UK withdrawal in favor or FRES.
I definitely think that the French are world leaders in wheeled AFVs with the Italians and Germans snapping at their heels. Puma(Italy), VAB, VBC1(France), Fuchs(Germany), Patria (Finland)  are some of what i have in mind.

The Stryker technically is Canadian by way of Switzerland. I love the electronics in it but the vehicle itselfd is just another 8 wheeled  APC that is middle of the road. There are mechanically simpler and better vehicles out there, like some that I mentioned. The best purely US designed 8x8 is the GPV Colonel which is an interesting export design that I would like to see trialed by our gonzo DHS as a possible vehicle to be used by ICE to patrol our border considering how heavily armed the banditos along the Arizona New Mexici border are noiw. Try sending the Border Patrol up against Mexican smugglers armed with GPMGs? 

Well that's my opinion subject to change when I have better data. 

Herald

 
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Yimmy       12/5/2007 6:44:47 PM

I see what your saying Herald, but some of the vehicles you list, like Fuchs, are ancient.

 

 
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Herald1234       12/6/2007 1:17:36 PM

I see what your saying Herald, but some of the vehicles you list, like Fuchs, are ancient.


 




So was the Piranha. But through LAV 1-111 to Stryker we went. Good engineering doesn't care how old it is. If it does the job better than with what you designed/intended to try to replace it? 

Ask me if I would rather have a Centauro or an AMX-10RC or the Stryker MGS if I needed gun support in a wheeled medium brigade right now? I want the best solution for the job. I'm a little partial to the Centauro because it also comes in a wheeled IFV variant as well [logistics], but what the hey...... The French build very good wheeled AFVs.
 
Herald 
 
 
 
I hink you know my answer.
 
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doggtag    "ancient" Fuchs, and run-ins at the border...   12/6/2007 2:54:55 PM
Old hardware or not,
the US Army obviously saw fit enough to adopt the German Fuchs as the M93 series Fox NBC recon vehicle (it even swims).
 
As to border incidents and the need for greater (mobility? protection? firepower? maneuverability?) choices for the US border guards,
the problem here is more political than anything to do with having the gear to do the job.
 
Either there's some publicly-unknown agreement between the US and Mexican governments concerning extradition priviledges or who knows what (DEA & NSA might know something the rest of us don't, such as ongoing surveillance by both governments of certain individuals involved),
things that theUS government would shudder from were it ever made public (which is why the US side can't fire back under too many restrictive RoEs and other legalities),
or this just isn't as big an issue to the Washington crowd as many of the general public wish it were (the safety net comforting WaDC suggests that, until masses of predominantly hispanic illegals are being arrested in crime sprees in the nation's Capital, then it's not a super concern to them)...
 
Anyhow, yeah, the GPV fleet would be good mounts for border duty (until those thugs start trying to enter with RPGs...).
But concerning incidents with armed groups crossing into sovereign US territory heavily armed,
then my opinion is that there needs to be a clearly defined line of no return: post it in spanish : "If you cross beyond this point with illegal possession of weapons, use of deadly force is authorized against you by the US government and its affiliates".
Anyone caught beyond this line bearing weapons is a legitimate target.
 
Not only post the warning, but allow the border security personnel the authorization to respond to these threats in kind: terminal force.
Then if Mexico, or anyone else, cries foul, let them then explain why these armed individuals were allowed onto US soil, illegally, heavily armed.
 
Perhaps bunkers every 2-3 miles, with a trained Barrett 50 gunner occupying each along with considerable observation & surveillance equipment (to include the current generations of highly capable night vision equipment) and deputized men and women with the full authority to detain and arrest trespassers,
would go a longer distance to curtailing illegals with weapons than any concrete-and-barbed-wire fence.
 
Again, until Washington is really serious in doing anything to curb the problem,
don't expect the armed bandits to decrease their incursions.
Is it going to take the murder of some US border protectors by these armed thugs to get enough support behind border security?
 
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