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Subject: top 10 tanks in the world!!!
Hong-Xing    8/12/2003 9:07:05 AM
i think it would be this t-90 (rus) m1a2 (usa) t-98 (chi) m1a1 (usa) Challenger 2 (bri) t-95 black hawk (rus) al khalid (chi) merkeva (bra) arjun (ind) t-90||| (chi)
 
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towgunner1960    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!!   11/16/2003 7:09:32 PM
To that six you could probably add, the Korean tank K1? (baby abrams), Japans new tank with 120mm main gun, and the Italians new tank with 120mm also.
 
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jacques    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!! Jacques   11/17/2003 6:48:18 PM
Thank you Heorot and Horsesoldier, you both have enlightend me. Now I come to the conclusion that infantries have teeth and they're sharp too. Anything less than the latest generation MBT (LECLERC,M1, LEOPARD3,CHALLENGER, ARIETTE and others in this class) is unaccpetable. By the way T90 or any other Russian and Chinese made tank are hopelessly obsolete.
 
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WinsettZ    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!! Jacques   11/18/2003 8:08:12 AM
Even so, I included T-90 as a "top" because the Russians should still be making 2nd tier stuff at very low prices. T-80 was designed as a "fast" tank and is weaker then T-90, which is a evolution of the T-72 from the "tough" tank school. When the Russians get those 152mm guns into the T-90 you will all fear... :) (As for adding those four tanks to my Top Six...can you provide a sufficient amount of advantages that justifies their placement at top 10, other then being non-Russian and being reasonably new?)
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!! Jacques   11/18/2003 11:22:08 AM
>>(As for adding those four tanks to my Top Six...can you provide a sufficient amount of advantages that justifies their placement at top 10, other then being non-Russian and being reasonably new? << My recollection is that the new Japanese tank (Type 97? I can't recall at the moment) does have some innovative and top-end fire control systems. I don't know much about the K1 and K1A1, outside their basic stats in Janes, etc.
 
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gadfli2003    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!!   11/18/2003 1:14:56 PM
I have decided to rank MBT's less on the usual factors (ie, Firepower, Protection, Mobility) and more on whether or not the given vehicle serves or has served it's author well from a historical point of view. By author, I mean country of origin. T-34 (all versions, but especially the T-34/85) Sherman (all versions) Centurion (especially Isreali improved models) Merkavah (all versions) T-54 through T-72 (tens of thousands produced) Panzer IV (WWII workhorse; all versions) Abrams (all versions) T-80/T-90 Patton (M48 through M60 versions) Leopard (version 1 or 2)
 
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Worcester    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!!   11/18/2003 6:49:58 PM
Very good list. Like your emphsis on war-winners. Since the Centurion was used by Israelis in 1967 AND 1973 to kick the Russian armor to pieces, don't know why any Russian stuff is included; ditto Abrams-Challenger in 1991 AND 2003. Historically, the Centurion 105mm gun won the NATO tank contest in 1967 (it equipped all NATO tanks, M60, Leopard, etc.) In 1971 the Brits then introduced the first 120mm gun, gyro stabilised platform, laser ranger and lead sight on the new Chieftain (tested in battle by Israel in 1973) and followed with "Chobham" ceramic armor on Challenger. Abrams took all this, improved the gun (fin stabilized), got a better engine and added digital link for friend/foe awareness. Four major tank wars - Centurion, Abrams/ Challenger...and the Russian tanks lost each time despite superior numbers. Give them the T-34 if you want a Russian success. Leopard? Used in action? Outrun an Abrams? And its fire control system? LeClerc? Ever been used in combat? The top ten list can be whatever you want, but the winners of the last four tank wars are Centurion, Abrams and Challenger.
 
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MikkoLn    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!!   11/19/2003 9:09:50 AM
"Four major tank wars - Centurion, Abrams/ Challenger...and the Russian tanks lost each time despite superior numbers. Give them the T-34 if you want a Russian success." As discussed many times before, partly due to different role the tanks were designed for ( roughly western TD / eastern MBT style). M1/Challenger fared well not because they were good but first and foremost because their enemies were very bad in quality (of the past generation tanks). Israeli tank forces have gained great victories even with Supershermans, and they are basicly very much due to superior gunnery, excessive training and good (combat experienced)leadership. So their victories are resultant to their own strenght, not the weakness of their enemies. So basicly, Russian tanks tend to look inferior because of two basic reasons; -they have been mainly used by countries with poor quality troops or crews against much higher standard troops. -they have been used against decades after their debut against vastly more recent equipment. Nobody is talking about 40years old T34/85's dominating the Angolan-South African battlefields. It's not glamourous, I must admit, but if we'd like to get a objective vision about how different kinds of tanks have been used or how they've performed even the more minor wars or conflicts with not such a great popularity should be included as well.
 
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Worcester    RE:top 10 tanks: WAR WINNERS first: Abrams/Challenger   11/19/2003 2:45:53 PM
Why not put the war winners first? The ones which beat every Russian model in the last four tank wars. Or do you think since the collapse of the Soviet Union that Russian tanks have become superior to western? Chinese and Japanese? If you want to theorize, fine, whatever...
 
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Couac_Attack    RE:top 10 tanks: WAR WINNERS first: Abrams/Challenger   11/19/2003 2:57:15 PM
To say that to beat few old russians tanks, used by bas trained , arrassed by an aviation and not motivated tankers doesnt look like a great test. I hope the M1 and the challenger are abble of more than it.
 
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joe6pack    RE:top 10 tanks: WAR WINNERS first: Abrams/Challenger   11/19/2003 4:34:21 PM
"To say that to beat few old russians tanks, used by bas trained , arrassed by an aviation and not motivated tankers doesnt look like a great test" Perhaps not the toughest test. However, when ever the other guy is shooting live 125mm rounds or for that matter anything he can fire at all at your tank, with the intent of destroying it and killing the crew... I think its more of test than any peace time "field trial". So, unless anyone volunteers to take a couple of NATO units out in the field and have them shoot live rounds at one another... I think its the best test you are likely to see.
 
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