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Subject: top 10 tanks in the world!!!
Hong-Xing    8/12/2003 9:07:05 AM
i think it would be this t-90 (rus) m1a2 (usa) t-98 (chi) m1a1 (usa) Challenger 2 (bri) t-95 black hawk (rus) al khalid (chi) merkeva (bra) arjun (ind) t-90||| (chi)
 
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Couac_Attack    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!!   9/23/2003 9:00:36 AM
What does the Leo 2 has more than the Leclerc??
 
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Nasty German Idiot    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!!   9/23/2003 12:36:59 PM
If i would like to be very mean to you i would say "no people from france" :) But state it the other way round what does the Leclerc have that the Leo doesnt have ? And now dont come with false things like "It has better target systems" or "the Leo cant shoot driving more than 15 km" or such things ok ?
 
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kjetski    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!!   9/23/2003 2:32:22 PM
None of the AFVs listed in that ridiculous ranking come close to the M-1! The Merkava is a fine but rather immobile AFV, as are the others. It all comes down to the power train. I believe all but the Abrahms are diesel powered and put out between 800 and 900 hp. The upper end of their top speed is around 35-40 mph AT BEST. The Abrahms will hit 40 with ease, quickly and quietly. The gun laying system is simple and rugged. It is quiet and reliable. It will use all manner of fuel (like harry carey swilling down budweiser!). The KP at 3 km is above 95%. During Desert Storm 1 the rags lost thousands of soviet made AFVs. We lost less than 10 M-1's....
 
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Couac_Attack    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!!   9/23/2003 3:06:19 PM
" But can you proove me that it can do better?? I founded it on the web but you never justify that it was false .. so explain?? " Now to answer to your returned question, what the Leclerc has more than the Leo2 A5/6..: -A better fire rate, 6 shoot per minute -Dont need to go slower or to stop, to reload the heavy ammo because of it has got an auto-reloader. -A better armor, when Germans changed their Leo2 armor for a better one, they made a lot of noise against the frenhc one, that why some GIAT engineers gived few information that showed the Leclerc armor was 2X stronger, and much more lighter than the Leo 2 one. -better speed -More nimble -a better fire acquisition in hight speed on a fast target. Now if you say me im wrong, you must consider that all the tech of the Leclerc to stabilyze the gun that doesnt get the Leo2 make a difference.. ;) Now i have answered to your question, i would like to know what the Leo 2 has more than the Leclerc. ( its not Ironic but just say me ) An other question to everybody: Do you know what tank is the best protected between the Last merkarva and the Challenger 2?? Because i have seen some things, which i dont know if they are true, that the Merkarva 4 was well protected.
 
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joe6pack    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!! Re: C-Attack   9/23/2003 6:48:19 PM
Differences between Challanger 2 and Merkava 4. I did a little looking as to protection.. I suppose it may come down to if you mean crew survival or tank survival. The Merkava 4 apparently has a "new" armor and more of it than the M3 - but can't find anywhere that says what it is.. not sure if we are sharing the next generation chobam or not. However, one of the different things about the Merkava is that the engine is in front.. so even if a round penetrated the frontal armor it would have to go through the engine before getting to the crew. Something also of interest it seems to incorparate a lot of the defensive measures / electronics that the LeClerc uses (although of Isreali manufacture). Isreal - I think also pioneered some of the "crew saving" technology that most western tanks have incorparated.. I beleive it was the earlier Merkava series that started the sealed ammo compartments designed to blow out and away from the tank if hit. All and All it looks like the C2 is heavier and is certainly packing the latest hight tech armor.. so over all survivability it would seem to go to the Challanger - but the Merkava 4 probably will be well liked by its crews.. So many of these arguments are so situational its hard to come up with a single "truth".
 
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Couac_Attack    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!! Re: C-Attack   9/24/2003 11:12:50 AM
Thx for your comments. :) I will try to found the Merkarva Armor on the web..
 
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MikkoLn    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!!   9/25/2003 1:54:32 AM
Well even back in the WWII Panther had 700hp engine, today for example Leclerc and LeoII mount 1500hp powerpack. However they have lower power-to-weight ratio and ground pressure than M1, for that matter (if you want to go playing with pure numbers). Anyway, the actual cross country performance is dependant on countless of factors and the result can surely be seen only in the field.
 
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MikkoLn    slight adjustment   9/25/2003 3:27:15 AM
>lower power-to-weight ratio and ground pressure should have been higher power to weight ratio and lower ground pressure
 
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Nasty German Idiot    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!! - Couac_Attack   9/25/2003 3:28:54 AM
So lets see: In your Post you say the Leclerc has a better fire rate, with 6 shots per minute. Thats just incorrect. The average German Tank-Gunner has a reloading time of 5 seconds. The reloading time of the Leclerc-Automatic Gun is 6 seconds. So the Leopard can be reloaded faster. -Dont need to go slower or to stop, to reload the heavy ammo because of it has got an auto-reloader. Do you think the Leo has to go slower only because it has to reload ? "-A better armor, when Germans changed their Leo2 armor for a better one, they made a lot of noise against the frenhc one, that why some GIAT engineers gived few information that showed the Leclerc armor was 2X stronger, and much more lighter than the Leo 2 one." Keep dreaming. PS: Be sure, nobody lets French engineers at a German tank to investigate the Armor, even the thickness is a secret. And i dont think France can develope an Armor that is 2X better than the German one. About the Speed: Leopard2A6 goes with 72 on the Street, Leclerc 70. In the field the Leclerc is 2 Kmh faster, which is no big difference. To the advantages of the Leo: It can go trough water up to a deep of 4.4 Meters (underwater) It has a much better Protected Tower against new Antitank weapons that attck from above. And, at last: The Cannon is the L55, which has 80% more power than the old L44 from the Leopard2-A5. The Leclerc uses the CN-120-26, which shoots 2 differend types of ammo: One goes with 1790 m/s the other with 1100 m/s. The new L55 has over 2000 m/s.
 
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Couac_Attack    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!! - Couac_Attack   9/25/2003 11:24:45 AM
" -Dont need to go slower or to stop, to reload the heavy ammo because of it has got an auto-reloader. " I never saw that the Leo 2 had got an auto reloader system. And YES you need to go slower to reload the ammo ( think the Man that reload isnt superman, and did you try to stay up in a bus that go at 70 KmH on a chaotic ground and to do some things ??) And a men dont have a regular reload ability like an auto loader ( it wil depend of the man) " Keep dreaming. PS: Be sure, nobody lets French engineers at a German tank to investigate the Armor, even the thickness is a secret. And i dont think France can develope an Armor that is 2X better than the German one. " only 2 things to say: LOL, MDR " About the Speed: Leopard2A6 goes with 72 on the Street, Leclerc 70. In the field the Leclerc is 2 Kmh faster, which is no big difference. " Its stupid that a tank can go at 72 KmH ( the tank is bloked when it go faster, ?? lol) , and you said that because it was 2KmH more than the Leclerc. I will add one thing, the Lecelrc has got point of speed of 90 so .. " The average German Tank-Gunner has a reloading time of 5 seconds. The reloading time of the Leclerc-Automatic Gun is 6 seconds. So the Leopard can be reloaded faster. " I was also considering the time to have an acquitsition !!
 
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