top 10 tanks in the world!!!

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Spectra Couac_Attack 12/9/2003 11:52:41 AM

Greetings I've found this infos on Rheinmetall webpage. But i was wrong it's more around 1750 m/s not 1800 m/s for the L/55 gun with KE-Munition DM53 (LKEII). As for the Giat L/52 gun, it's confirmed to be 1790 m/s with Arrow munition OFL 120 F1-A.(Giat Webpage) Giat L/52 Gun has a wide array of ammunitions plus it is compatible with all Rheinmetall ammo's. link link

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Spectra InFuSeR 12/9/2003 12:12:37 PM

Humm... i suppose yours is 100% right!? M1A1/A2 Abrams has some problems with his tracks when running in the sand, it get jammed and have difficulties to move. Plus the Turbine engine is very fuel thirsty, not to mention it's still equip with the L/44 120mm gun from Rheinmetall. Challenger II is basically a Challenger I with some improvements. Still this tank is to big and to heavier thus highly vulnerable. Moreover it is slow and have poor acceleration. Technically it is behind compare to other Westerners MBT especially in electronics and computers. Only armour and gun are adequate. But Smooth bore has a better upgrowth capabilities than Rifle.

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jacques RE:InFuSeR 12/10/2003 3:34:03 AM

I am not saying the LECLERC is perfect. Nothing is perfect, but the LECLERC is as close to perfection as one ca get. Its electronic suite has no equal among any other MBT out there. The gun it carry is just devastation, but off course the Leopard 2 is just a little bit better by a hair width. Its modular amour has unlimited upgrade capability. It's a mgnificient tanks. If it can carry infantry into battle like the Merkava, having a breech loading mortar and has a human loader; it will be the perfect tank. LECLERC is the best out there.

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Crusader RE:InFuSeR 12/10/2003 9:32:34 AM

>>I am not saying the LECLERC is perfect. Nothing is perfect, but the LECLERC is as close to perfection as one ca get. Its electronic suite has no equal among any other MBT out there. The gun it carry is just devastation, but off course the Leopard 2 is just a little bit better by a hair width. Its modular amour has unlimited upgrade capability. It's a mgnificient tanks. If it can carry infantry into battle like the Merkava, having a breech loading mortar and has a human loader; it will be the perfect tank. LECLERC is the best out there << Problem for you guys is, noone wants them. Perhaps the utter lack of buyers may say more than all the fanfare you try to give the tank. And with the high initial cost of it, combined with the low production, modular or not, it will not be cheap to run or operate, as part will eat you alive over the life of the tank. With few customers, who is going to sink the money into R&D 10 years from now to make the modular upgrades? Seems highly unlikely on an unproven design.

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jacques RE:InFuSeR 12/11/2003 1:03:44 AM

Have you read my anylysis in other posts ? We already laid down the prices for all the MBT out there. LECLERC is not an expensive tank to start out with. It's certainly not an expensive tank to operate. If you own a LECLERC over 20 years period which is normal now aday. The LECLERC will virtually pay for itself. On the other hand if you own any other tank over the same period. You will have to punp in money to keep it going. You make your analysis out of your national feeling, but not by looking at the check book. The LECLERC will save you money in the long haul.

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InFuSeR m1a2 12/11/2003 1:41:53 AM

Why is the m1a2 best tank it the world? 1.Best Training course for the tank is in the USA, no other nation has a training course that can compare to our course. 2. A opfor force to train agiesnt using lasers systems. 3.The m1a2 is one of the best tanks in the world.Our crews outclass any other crews b/c of our training.So the m1a2 + the best crew = the best tank. Also the Leclerc didnt even make the top 5 tanks of the world study in 1999.The Leclerc mk2 verison came out in 1998. The M1 can go anywere in the world and perform well.Unlike the Challanger 2 which has major desert problems.The Leo2 was never tested in the desert or jungels. Also the M1 tank will be updated in late 2005 early 2006 to the M1a3.

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gf0012-aus RE:m1a2 - InFuSeR 12/11/2003 2:07:48 AM

care to show us the data re challengers having desert problems? Actual links and reliable sources would be good.

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Teja the Strategist RE:Jacques 12/11/2003 2:33:39 AM

Well Jacques, LECLERC is a good tank, yes it was omited in the first list for discussion but that does not mean all Asian tanks are inferior to the western tanks. I dont know why Japanese & South Korean tanks are being included in the top 10 (no offence to the japanese & Koreans) These tanks have not seen battle and in my opinion are Japan & Korea specific. Let me just tell u the detailed specifications of Al Khalid and then u can decide where Pakistan stands in Tank manufacturing Pakistan's development of the MBT-2000 Al Khalid began in 1988, and in January 1990 an agreement was reached with China to jointly design, develop and manufacture system. The design is an upgrade from the original T902M and work had been going on at China's NORINCO for some years. Besides a low silhouette, it is considerably smaller as compared to other modern tanks, with a maximum weight of 46 tons. The Al Khalid is fitted with a smooth bore gun of 125mm which can also fire missiles. Since then development efforts have focused on improving the design for Pakistan's terrain and high temperatures. The engine of the T90 2M is replaced by the Ukrainian 6TD 1200hp engine, and a newly developed thermal viewer system has been added to improve nocturnal fighting capability. Heavy Industries Taxila started production of Al-Khalid in November 2000. Ukraine is a key partner in the production of the Al-Khalid tank which is a joint venture between China, Pakistan and Ukraine. Ukraine is also providing assistance to Pakistan in the Upgrade/Re-Build its T-59 tanks to the Al-Zarar Configuration, which is intended to match the T-80UD tanks. Ukraine possesses one of the most reliable tank engines in the conditions of hot climate. It is the result of the strategy of tank building development. At one time Ukraine and Russia, as two great tank powers, took two different ways of tank engine development. Ukrainian constructors chose the Diesel direction, while Russian ones the gas turbine, like many other countries. In the extreme conditions of hot climate gas-turbine engines of China and Poland, created on the base of B-1, B-2 engine types, Russian engines, having had serious problems during testing in India, started to receive transient errors. At the same time Ukrainian engines on the tanks T-80UD, provided to Pakistan, showed high reliability. Al-Khaild Tanks Unique Abilities Al-Khalid is capable of targeting the enemy in the dark of night. It is the only tank that has the ability to auto-track the enemy's tanks. Only French tanks have this capability. It is also as powerful as the German tank Leopard in terms of movement. The Al-Khalid tank's performance is much better than the Russian T-90-S tank, since its designed extreme temperatures. Features & Fire Power Al-Khalid has been designed with a 125mm (48 caliber) smooth bore, auto-frettaged and chrome plated gun which can fire APFSDS, HEAT-FS and HE-FS conventional ammunition and missiles. It is equipped with muzzle reference system, and bi-axis stabilization. Elevation and azimuth control is achieved by electro-hydraulic power drives. The tank is also equipped with a 7.62 mm-coaxial MG, 12.7mm externally mounted MG that can be fired with the hatch closed and grenade launchers. The gunner is provided with a dual magnification day sight and the commander with a panoramic Hunter Killer sight for all around independent surveillance. Both sights are bi-axis image stabilized and have independent laser range finders. Multi-Target Engagement Abilities The commander has the ability of acquiring a target independently while the gunner is engaging a previously selected one. Rate Of Fire The automatic ammunition handling system, with 24 round ready-to-fire magazine further supplements the Hunter-Killer capability of the tank which can load at a rate of 8 rounds a minute. The presence of automatic target tracking system enables the tank to achieve a very high first round hit probability even while firing on a moving target while moving itself. NightVision Night vision for the gunner and commander is achieved through a dual magnification thermal imaging sight. The powerful fire control system computer processes all the firing information, which includes inputs from its ten sensors and is integrated to both sights. FireControl The ballistic computation time is less than one second. For accurate fire control, third generation gating facility has been provided. The result of such a modern fire control system is, routine first round hits on standard (8 ft x 8 ft) targets at ranges in excess of 2000meters. The tank with its 125mm gun has a remarkably stable platform, which is provided by a combination of soft recoil and an excellent suspension. Wrapped around the fire control system are the ergonomic crew positions and controls. The tank commander, gunner and driver can virtually reach all their controls with little movement. Engine A 1200 horsepower super

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oldbutnotwise RE:m1a2 - InFuSeR 12/11/2003 2:57:22 AM

Here we go again, Firstly the problem with the Challenger 2's were due to penny pinching by the british govenment the didnt buy dessert filters for the tanks engines the ones the had didnt keep out the sand and the melted in the heat!!!! onch fitted with the proper filters the tanks performed as well as M1s a few points in denfence of the challenger and a few against the LECLERC 1 although the chally is heavier the leclerc is only 5kph quicker accross country, not a lot of an advantage to give away so much armour. the so called giat armour is a copy of chobban 1(developed when the UK refused to allow the french to licence build chobbam)it has never been independantly tested(unlike chobbam), is it likely that a copy developed rather quickely by a company without experiance in this area, will be better than the original? especially when the original has had 3 upgrades since then? The battlefield management system is the same system as fitted to the leclerc while the sights are the canadian built system (ask your self why the uk didnt buy the french sights with the management system if they were superior, but instead buy the canadian system and then have to intergrate the two systems) currently the rifled 120mm is superior to the smoothbore (yes due to the cost of developing the next genration ofshells it is likely that it will be replaced by a smoothbore, allowing it to use US developed rounds) the challenger has confirmed kills at ranges greater than the max rang of the smoothbore. plus a few things about the leclerc reports from saudi say that the autoloader jams if used at more than 25kph across country. the suspension has problems with sand as does the engine filters(this does seem to effect all tanks first time in the desert) a series of jamming turrets has required a modification from the factory in short it isnt perfect. ps I understand the M1A3 is getting chobbam 2 armour this was the same as fitted to the challenger 1s

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Crusader RE:InFuSeR 12/11/2003 6:34:23 AM

>>You make your analysis out of your national feeling, but not by looking at the check book. << Pot, meet kettle. On what planet does low production=low cost of operation? Unless you haven't checked, noone is buying yoiur 'wonder tank' in any great numbers, hence parts will be more expensive, and THAT IS REALITY, if you choose to ignore itto bad for you. And you still did not answer my qurstion of who is going to front the money for the R&D for these modular upgrades you keep rambling on about? "The French Army has nearly 300 Leclerc MBTs in service and in September 2001 ordered the final tranche of 52, concluding a total order of 406 (plus 20 armoured recovery vehicles). Deliveries are expected to be completed by 2005. 390 tanks and 46 armoured recovery vehicles have been ordered by UAE. Deliveries will conclude early in 2004." link Have you stopped dreaming long enough to try and figure out the unit cost of these upgrades on such a small fleet of tanks? Or are you to busy thumping your French chest about how great this tank that nobody seems to wamt is? Higher production= lower unit cost, except in the French economic model, it seems.

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