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Subject: top 10 tanks in the world!!!
Hong-Xing    8/12/2003 9:07:05 AM
i think it would be this
t-90 (rus)
m1a2 (usa)
t-98 (chi)
m1a1 (usa)
Challenger 2 (bri)
t-95 black hawk (rus)
al khalid (chi)
merkeva (bra)
arjun (ind)
t-90||| (chi)
 
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PuckaMan    Old.... well said   12/22/2003 5:33:56 AM
Oldbutnotwise has said a very smart (albiet obvious thing)... all modern western tanks are generally equal in capabilities. Some are better in other areas than others, but on the whole western modern armour is extremely capable. Thus, as old said, it comes down to other factors in the end, experience, tactics, training, situation, opponents, environment, etc. Therefore, this 'Leclerc is better than this and that,' and 'M1 is too inefficient,' etc. is really not worth crapping on about. How about another discussion where there is no top ten list, but a pros and cons of various tanks, backed up by fact and not influenced by prejudice. Anyway, my 2 cents on the Subject: 1. Leo2A6 - Undoubtebly the latest in MBTs, and has influenced many an upgrade, and is a constantly evolving tank. 2. M1A2 - until the SEP come into larger service, the Abrams is No. 2, battle proven, hard as nails and a generally a kick-arse machine, if a little expensive. Personally, I don't mind the turbine. Its advantages and flaws were understood from the start, and the various trade offs were woth it in my mind. 3. Challenger2 - Superb armour (the best) and great gun, if underpowered for my liking (needs at least a 1500), a few niggling problems, but nothing's perfect, but the Chally comes close. 4. Merkava 4: A really well thought out a capable machine derived and designed from experience, it can mix with just about anything. However, it is an Israeli design, designed specifically for Israel, and in that role it very hard to supercede. As for exportability, that is questionable. 5. Leclerc. I guess the L gets into 5. The French can produce some top-quality stuff, and this Tank is proof of this. However, it has yet to be proven in almost all respects, and until it is, its stake at 5 is precarious, with strong competiton from Russia and SK and Japan. As for the rest, I'll have to do more research before I speak on the other tanks. P.S: In 'New Tanks- What should Australia get?' You may be aware that most (including the Royal Australian Armoured Corps) favour the Leo2A6. I must admit, that influenced my top 5...
 
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scase    M1A2 = Dreadnought of Tanks   12/22/2003 2:54:55 PM
There are, perhaps, tanks out there that have thicker skins, longer reachs, or are straiter shooters... however I don't think any of them have the C3I capabilities of the M1A2. The A2 is the digital tank- no more maps, you have computer screens. Command and Control is taken to a whole new level of wow. Battlefield internets, digital radios, C3I screens, independent commanders sight, a fully built-in camera for the drivers (now that is good news, let me tell you!) mixed together with the basic M-1 platform with its excellent GERMAN gun, superb BRITISH armor and you have what is in my opinion the modern 'HMS Dreadnought' for the tanker world. Ask any German student of war- Germany didn't beat the allies in 1940 because the PZKW III had the thicker armor, more accurate and harder hitting gun, or was the fastest mover. It won because the Germany Army took a quantium leap in combined arms tactics and married it up with excellent command and control and aggressive and capable commanders. C3I boys and girls. That is what makes the battle winner :D
 
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RM-Nod    RE:M1A2 = Dreadnought of Tanks   12/22/2003 3:28:11 PM
"however I don't think any of them have the C3I capabilities of the M1A2." Well doesn't the LeClerc have all the modern gadgets? If that is your criteria then the LeClerc is the tank of choice. Oh yes and "T 90 is best" Shadow ofcourse! however did we miss it, I mean you have posted such a clear argument yet so simple, I applaude you.
 
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tgunner91    RE:M1A2 = Dreadnought of Tanks   12/22/2003 4:59:05 PM
>Well doesn't the LeClerc have all the modern >gadgets? If that is your criteria then the >LeClerc is the tank of choice. Don't know there. Are the French digitizing the Le Clerc MBT? And is that just the tank with the fancy gadgets, or are the French building a digital style organization similar to the 4th ID? I don't remember seeing any articles about the French funding and exploring those capabilities. This would be a good time for one of our French Army wiz-kids to chime in. An article on-line in English about this would be awesome too! :D However I stick by what I said. Armor, guns, and treads are great... but it's C3I that's going to win the fight. It's the C3I stuff (plus a few other goodies) that make my old M1A1 look like a total dinosaur compared the the A2. If your tank doesn't have this stuff- you're talking about a mere battleship... I'm talking DREADNOUGHT here :D (gotta love the old 2/34 :)
 
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Jigoku-Aisatsu    RE:M1A2 = Dreadnought of Tanks   12/27/2003 10:37:01 PM
It makes me wonder; the M1A2 is cutting new ground for sure, it is quite unique and its overall effectiveness is certainly to be determined in the future by it's situational awarness and the reliability of the comps in it. When it comes to military comp systems, the Japanese build the most rugged. I wonder if a new Japanese techno-tank could one day hit number 1. What kind of protection does the SEP have versus emp bombs. Static bombs can get really powerful and can fry systems for several blocks. I admire that French tenacity and spirit, no biggie Jacques, all those guys who post here like the Russians who take a licken and keep fighting their points are cool in my book.
 
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Jigoku-Aisatsu    RE:M1A2 = Dreadnought of Tanks   12/27/2003 10:39:58 PM
Is the SEP more heavily armored? If so, by how much?
 
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kebecois    RE:M1A2 = Dreadnought of Tanks   12/28/2003 7:59:08 AM
M1SEP has a new commander sight independent from the turret. Other then that it's still M1A2 not a big improvement over prvious models. To survive on the battlefield in the 21 century one need a fully digitalized tank. The only country having computerized tanks is France.
 
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oldbutnotwise    RE:M1A2 = Dreadnought of Tanks   12/29/2003 1:14:17 AM
realy? how come the Challenger has the same comand and control systems as the leclerc if the leclerc is the only one? all the mbts in the west have a c and c system fitted, you can argue whoes is best but not that ours has it and yours doesnt. ps the a3 has 2nd generation chobbam armour as fitted to challenger 1's
 
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kebecois    RE:M1A2 = Dreadnought of Tanks   12/29/2003 3:06:00 AM
Im pointing out the obvious here. French tank is more sophislicated while English tank is more protect. They both are good, but their usefulness is limited today. The future belong to the tank destroyer. They are heavy armour car with 105mm and even 120mm, fully computerized. They can take on any tank today and they are more mobile.
 
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Couac_Attack    RE:M1A2 = Dreadnought of Tanks   12/29/2003 3:18:30 AM
" how come the Challenger has the same comand and control systems as the leclerc if the leclerc is the only one? " i thougt it was a canadian one ....??..
 
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oldbutnotwise    RE:M1A2 = Dreadnought of Tanks   12/29/2003 5:24:41 AM
no the targeting system is candian, the command and control is the same system as fitted to the leclerc
 
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bazos    RE:top 10 tanks in the world!!!   12/30/2003 9:35:55 AM
the best ones are: m1 abram , challenger, merkva they were to the battle not the others, chechens destroyed many russians t90 tanks with little means during the two war of tchechena
 
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PuckaMan    Testament to Challenger 2's Armour   12/30/2003 10:35:52 AM
Not really an opinion, but I found an article in a recent FHM mag. Sep. 2003 (Australia) anyway, the journo is talking with some Tommies from the Queen's Royal Lancers: "How tough is the tank?" "Tough as Hell. One of the lads in C Squadron took 7 RPG rounds and they just bounced off the turret. We took a couple and hit a landmine. Sounded like the biggest sledgehammer in the world, but all it did was crack the track." There you go. Pretty good evidence that, for my money, the Challenger 2 has the best armour of any tank. Still prefer the Leo2A6 though, Chally2 is a bit underpowered for my liking. P.S: "Do you have anything like a CD player or air-conditioning for creature comforts?" "F_k yeah, we were playing the Foo Fighters and Flight of the Valkyries to get us in the mood for battle!" Which brings up a good point: Best gun, best armour, fastest, etc. is all well and good; is there space for a CD player and Kylie Minogue, Britney Spears or (My favourite) Kiera Knightley Pin-ups? We're forgetting the important things here!@
 
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supertankerm1a1    RE:Testament to Challenger 2's Armour   12/30/2003 10:01:53 PM
Sorry to bust your bubble but RPG's are as whimpy as it comes in the catagory of anti armor weaponry. Heck, an RPG 7 couldnt even kill an A48A5 from most angles There are pictures of 48's that took over a dozen hits from RPG7's after it had been immobilized by a land mine with no crew casualties. They barely penetrate APC's armor.
 
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Heorot    RE:Testament to Challenger 2's Armour supertankerm1a1   12/31/2003 10:19:47 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble supertankerm1a1, but it is believed that it was a dual warhead RPG that penetrated the side of an M1 recently (look at this sites picture gallery). Not all RPG's are equal.
 
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