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Subject: Chieftain HESh vs T-64 and T-72 1967 to 1973?
Edmund    3/16/2006 12:39:58 PM
Can the Chieftain using HESH ammo take out the T-64 or T-72 frontally during the time period 1967 to 1973?

 
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Yimmy    RE:Chieftain HESh vs T-64 and T-72 1967 to 1973?   3/16/2006 1:45:16 PM
I would say yes, certainly. Unless either thank has much spaced armour, which I do not believe they do.
 
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Edmund    RE:Chieftain HESH vs T-64 and T-72 1967 to 1973?   3/16/2006 2:07:59 PM
I don't think they have spaced armour either. But not sure. Just saw some estimates on T-64 and T-72 1967-73 as having between 350 to 400mm armour up front. Also 420mm to 520mm against HEAT. The higher HEAT value is from composites not spaced armour I understand. So was curious whether HESH could stop them. I am not an expert so just asking questions. Thanks.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:Chieftain HESH vs T-64 and T-72 1967 to 1973?   3/16/2006 4:20:56 PM
The Soviets always claimed the T-64 was superior to the T-72, but the former never having seen any action it is an open question. In any case, I'd think Chieftain HESH would produce acceptable lethality levels against either tank.
 
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flamingknives    RE:Chieftain HESH vs T-64 and T-72 1967 to 1973?   3/16/2006 5:23:25 PM
The 120mm HESH fired by the Conqueror was apparently good for 130mm+ of armour. That might not sound much, but remember that it isn't particularly angle sensitive. 130mm at 60 degrees from the vertical is still just 130mm to HESH. Plus Conqueror was a previous generation to the Chieftain.
 
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bunkerdestroyer    RE:Chieftain HESh vs T-64 and T-72 1967 to 1973?   3/19/2006 12:22:00 AM
I think yes for the t-72 with less armour and not with the t-64..... By then, the t-64 was an improved variant of the earlier models and yet better armour(including optics/engine, etc) and the t-72 was the earliest variant-vunerible to the hesh.....
 
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Edmund    RE:Chieftain HESh vs T-64 and T-72 1967 to 1973?   3/21/2006 9:41:13 AM
Thanks for the replies. I wish they would release information on HESH damage or a video of HESH hitting a T-72. Maybe in another 20 years.
 
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flamingknives    RE:Chieftain HESh vs T-64 and T-72 1967 to 1973?   3/21/2006 4:42:21 PM
Information on HESH damage isn't too hard to come by. You just need to look in the right places. Quite a bit is in the public domain though.
 
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Desertmole    RE:Chieftain HESh vs T-64 and T-72 1967 to 1973?   3/24/2006 8:12:13 AM
Guys, You forgot the T-64 and T-72 both had reactive armor over their hulls and turrets. It would nullify HESH. We had a lot of discussion about it in the late '70s - early '80s when pictures started emerging about them.
 
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flamingknives    RE:Chieftain HESh vs T-64 and T-72 1967 to 1973?   3/24/2006 9:38:05 AM
It would nullify HESH once. After that, there wouldn't be any more ERA. Do you happen to know when ERA made it into wide-scale issue?
 
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Desertmole    RE:Chieftain HESh vs T-64 and T-72 1967 to 1973?   4/8/2006 6:56:58 AM
The Soviets were using it on the T-64 and T-72, but not sure exactly when (mid '70s, I think). The Israelis were, I think, the first Western Army to adopt it, sometime in the '80s. When a round hits the ERA, the only blocks that usually blow are those struck by the projectile. Getting a second round in the same place is tough. You may have to hit the target 3-4 times before you can get a hit on bare armor.
 
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flamingknives    RE:Chieftain HESh vs T-64 and T-72 1967 to 1973?   4/8/2006 12:05:32 PM
HESH has a rather useful effect of blowing the carp out of whatever it hits. There were some trials in the late '50s on a Conqueror heavy tank using a Malkara missile, which has a HESH warhead, although it is a bit bigger than a 120mm shell. Basically, it cleared all the applique armour off the front and gave the tank (60 tonnes plus) a good rattling.
 
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StobieWan    RE:Chieftain HESh vs T-64 and T-72 1967 to 1973?   4/8/2006 7:02:54 PM
That was my impression - when the Chieftain entered service, there were a number of practise shoots against Centurions and Conquerors as static range targets and the results were visually spectacular - road wheels, stowage bins, anything not bolted down and quite a bit that was, tossed to one side.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:Chieftain HESh vs T-64 and T-72 1967 to 1973?   4/8/2006 8:48:08 PM
>>When a round hits the ERA, the only blocks that usually blow are those struck by the projectile. Getting a second round in the same place is tough. You may have to hit the target 3-4 times before you can get a hit on bare armor. << I've heard it claimed that HESH/HEP type rounds can trigger sympathetic detonation of ERA panels -- actually the claim (and I don't pretend to know how valid it was) was that HESH rounds could trigger a vehicle-wide set of sympathetic detonations, scrubbing all the ERA off a vehicle, and most everything else on the exterior of the vehicle, with a single hit. May just be a myth, however . . .
 
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boris the romanian    RE:Chieftain HESh vs T-64 and T-72 1967 to 1973?   5/2/2006 6:41:00 AM
To the best of my recollection, T-64B had spaced laminate armour in both the turret and glacis, making for a very difficult HESH target, though the first generation Combination-K glacis on the T-64A and the laminate inserts on the turret would have offered considerably inferior protection. I'd say that a HESH round would definately inflict a hell of a lot of damage on the T-64A regardless of whether or not the armour was defeated, but the frontal projection would have probably saved it from a catastrophic kill. The T-64B, OTOH, would fare very much better, and it was superior in armoured protection to all T-72 variants until the T-72B. All ERA equipped Soviet vehicles would severely degrade, if not totally defeat HESH, making a APFSDS round much more desirable, especially for the frontal projection.
 
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Carl S    RE:Chieftain HESh vs T-64 and T-72 1967 to 1973?   5/10/2006 7:26:47 AM
I dont know about HESH. There was a example of a M60 hit by a 203mm HE round in training. It did not penetrate. The 15 odd kilos of explosive did strip the exterior, including radio antenna. The crew were badly concussed. Cant recall any description of interior damage.
 
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