The future of armour

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Shaka of Carthage RE:Natl Guard 5 months not enough 5/20/2003 9:01:49 PM

That is the beauty of the NTC. You get to find out real quick if you have competent leaders or not. But then here the political problems with getting rid of incompetent officers in the NG arise. Thats one reason the regular Army doesn't want to deal with the NG. And to think... we have it better than almost everyone else (ie because we have NTC). Is it any wonder that in a real shooting war, most of the officers within the first 6 months of combat have a high turnover rate?

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Shaka of Carthage RE:Future of Armour ... the cost 5/20/2003 9:05:04 PM

Interesting, I have studies showing that a Armor Bn is about five (5) times more expensive than a Infantry Bn (as in light infantry). Maybe it has something to do with the relative fuel costs? M1's suck up alot of fuel, and the logistical tail is roughly 70% carrying fuel and water (for the US).

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Shaka of Carthage RE:Threat to US forces 5/20/2003 9:10:42 PM

Don't blame the French too much. They are trying in the ways they know how to be a player. Complancency or Lessons Learned is always a big problem for the Victor... they tend to "learn" what worked the last time. Can you blame them? It worked didn't it? Without getting all worked up about it (which I have a tendendcy to do), the "threat" to the US forces are "politicians in uniforms". We are spending more for Defense today then we ever did during the Cold War. That is a scary thought. And it sure ain't because we are "threatened". And here is what is more worrisome... why in a military of 1 or 2 million, do we need to activate 50,000 or so reserves to fight Iraq? Those are the threats to the US military.

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Thomas RE:Future of Armour ... the cost 5/21/2003 1:39:14 AM

To Shaka Nope, it was peace time training. In the danish case I think it was due to higher saleries to soldiers, and inf have more of them. Secondly I think it was low maintainance cost of the Leo 1.

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Thomas RE:Threat to US forces 5/21/2003 2:01:57 AM

To Shaka The French are in a squeese. They didn't rationalise their agriculture in the 1960'ies as everybody else did. With the new EU-members they won't get the farm subsidies they are used to. Their industry is up against the German - a tough proposition to any economy. So they have to get money somehow. The problem is, that they are only cooperating on their terms. Lessons Learned: I agree it is an inherent danger. What You tell me about the budget and 1½ mio, that need reserves called up: THAT is scary. I didn't realise it was so bad. This suggests serious organisatorial decay. All organisations tend to become their own end, regardless of the original problem the organisation was set up to deal with. In this case: You are a professional desk soldier first (fighting soldier get killed or are away, when promotions come up), then maybe as a distant second doing the job you were hired to do. The catholic church is THE example: It started as the imperial roman administration, and through administrative skill have reached the epitome of administration: Avoiding expenses by demanding celebacy, so you didn't have to worry about anything but your position in the hierachy. Making gamling, drinking and luxury a special sin to get rid of other money concerns. Finally arriving at the point, where the product you promise will be delivered after death - where there is no complaints department. This problem will not cure itself.

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Shaka of Carthage RE:Threat to US forces 5/21/2003 1:24:41 PM

Ok... going way off topic. Could you explain what you mean by the French not rationalizing thier agriculture? Catholic Church celibacy... I knew that one of the reasons celibacy was institued was because the eldest child of a priest was entitled to inheritance of land owned by the priest. But as you pointed out it also directly strengthens the organization, not the individual. Got to give them much credit, they sure were some smart ones among them. Organizational decay... politics and pork. The "gordian knot" of the current world. Where the hell is our current day Alexander?

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Thomas RE:Threat to US forces 5/22/2003 3:05:38 AM

Dear Shaka: With Pleasure! France experienced a population explosion at the end of the 19th century. To feed that population they took land under plow higher and higher up on the mountains, where the farmes in good times could eake out a shabby existence with very low productivity, secondly they send people out to populate the colonies (the reason they have problems with them and immigrants as well). In the 1950'ies and 1960'ies other countries, that had persued similar policies eliminated these unprofitable farms and induced the surplus labour into the public sector. France did not do that. With the creation of the EU the german need for food was to be supplied from France, as the only real farmland in Preussia and East-Preussia was under commie control - and wasn't much anyway. Germans are workers not farmers. This provided an excuse for the French to get farm subsidies from Germany, which Germany paid with hard DEM (they've always paid too much for their food anyway). Other countries - in the EU (or EEC at the time) had to get their act together. The Dutch are a striking example. In Denmark we went from having say 1/3 of the population working in the agriculture, where there is today a few percent (depending on definitions). Food prices have fallen, quality risen and quantity exploded. A cow in the EU, that doesn't produce 20-25 GALLONS of milk DAYLY is beef on a plate as comparede to a turkish cow wich produce 4 Gallons (probably the amount of a cow in the 1930'ies in Denmark). Now Poland, Hungary in particular enters the EU with lots of farmland and plenty of space for improvement - Where do you think that will put the French farmers? On the dole, as french industry cannot absorb the surplus workforce. German industri bought a country (the DDR) and when they get those chaps whipped into shape (and they will) they will be productive and quality concious. Rebuilt the country with 0% interest loans - so no capital charge there, and finally cheap suppliers from Chekkia and Hungary - not expensive French. Who do You think can compete with that???? That is a squeeze. The French are dead meat!

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Thomas RE:Threat to US forces 5/22/2003 3:07:20 AM

The current day Alexander. Well they don't come around but once every 5000 years.

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DDX RE:Threat to US forces 5/22/2003 5:45:59 AM

What are the reserves doing now. Are they part of the occuping force. Maybe there planning on using the main combat formations again shortly. Future of armoured warfare maybe tanks armed with EM guns and long range anti tank missles. What about a 30T AIFV armed with a 20mm or 30mm gatling gun firing 3000Rds of DU ammo with a laser defence system. Or a heavy tank(80-100T) for Urban warfare which could take direct hits from most AT weapons and keep going with several remote controled M134 gatling guns and grenade machine guns with a 105mm or 120mm gun for destroying builds, walls etc.

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Thomas RE:Threat to US forces 5/22/2003 7:29:03 AM

As far as I know: Tankers want to avoid cities for the fear of being caught in rubble when the defence blow up buildings.

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