Sesame Street For Little Nazis

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Photon 3/22/2010 3:57:49 PM

Perhaps the single greatest factor impeding a permanent negotiation is the Palestinian domestic politics. There are three political entities: a) Hamas, b) Fatah, and c) Hizbollah. The only thing they share in common is that Israel should not exist. In the meantime, they are just as likely to be shooting at one another (perhaps not so much between Hamas and Hizbollah as their respective turfs are different and both of them have Iran as their sponsor) as shooting at Israelis. Also, none of these three factions will gain a lot by actually having actually recognized Palestinian state as they are already 'kings of the hills'. For one thing, the moment one is in charge of a recognized government, he is under stricter standard of conduct. If he blunders, he may have to bring his ass on the line and suck up to consequences. Not to mention the inconvenience of having to share and deligate powers as an integral part of running a country, unless one wants to emulate 3rd world dictatorships and do not bloody care if someone from the West makes critical remarks.

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alfagis 3/23/2010 6:13:11 PM

Bottom line the Old Testament is not a real estate documentation. Imagine what you americans would say if Mexico demands the return of Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona, etc. Any american would say something like this: "ok, you're once here, but now I'm here, my parents lived here, my grandparents lived here, historical reasons doesn't give you the right to get it back!" And I'm just talking of mexicans, I don't even talk of American Natives.

So, it's true that palestinians, many of them, are little more than terrorists, but what would you do if even the lands that 1948 UN division gave to them are continuously ocupied by Israel?

Good to see a Portuguese brother around :D

There are few historical facts that people tend to ignore in relation of Israeli-Palestinian conflict:

1- Jews lived in palestine prior to 1948 for at least 2000 years

2- A lot of Jews which came by 1948 buy a lot of hands from the palestinians

3- The Arabs AND the Palestinians rejected the British partition plans because they couldn't live with the very existence of Israel, and they (Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Siria, Palestinian) attack the Israelis. The Israelis beated the crap out of them and conquered territories to guaranty the safety and the survival of Israel since the Arab plan was about whipping out Israel. I believe that people who are familiar with military matters agree with me that because of price in blood and treasure, the Israeli have a right of conquest over the conquered lands.

4- The Arabs expulsed the Jews from their countries and they moved to Israeli ... will they said refused to absorb the Palestian refugee

5- The arab tried o whipe out the Israeli again 20 year again.

Has a portueguese, I bet you are familiar with the Angolan independence War when the Portuguese army gave up in 1975, thus triggering the exile of thousand of portugueses ... but other thousand of ''Mestisos'' or Mixed Portuguese/Angolan people who staid there for generations. Those refused to go back to portugal and staid despite the fact that one of the factions of wanted a ''all black'' republic, they staid and faced the fight of the civil war instead of embarking on ships for Europe. Has descendant of one of those ''white portuguese'', I understand why the Israeli who were born and grown in Israeli are fighting for their right to live while the Palestinian have no other ambition than to whipe them off the map

People who criticise Israel are certainly the same who critizised Rodhesia and Pre-1992 South Africa, and fail to grasp the nature of the situation:

- People who hate you because of your race (white or Jew), which are not only interested in taking over, but exterminating and expulsing you all

- You are outnumbered, and scared ... thus a strong leadership and measures seems to be the only solution, this is why South Africa was taken over by Apartheid radical because people were scared that the ANC will take over instaure communism and expulse all the Boers especially when the Cubans showed up in Angola

- In Rodhesia ... now Zimbabwe ... Robert Mugabe just stripped the whites from their rights and property ... and I'm sure South Africa would have passed by the same experience.

I'm not legitimazing Apartheid ... just putting in perspective how a people submited to the threat of extermination from extremism may to ensure their survive hand their fate to leaders of extremes methode. But when the ANC shifted to a more moderate position, especially why Nelson Mandela abandoning armed struggle and expulsion and extermination of the rights.

Unless the palestinians stop with their radical views, the Israeli will never give up the fight has they have no intention of being exterminated and drown on the mediteranean

If the IDF was to be decisively defeated, the Arab and Palestinian would commit extreme attrocities against the Israeli civilians

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alfagis 3/23/2010 6:22:48 PM

Native American tribes are "nations" inside our Federal Republic. They are also Americans. This is something you do not understand.

Let Mexico try. Mexicans who come here and become Americans are most welcome. Their so called 'type of government' is NOT.

Hi H.

I would think that my english is understandable enough, it appears not. As I said I am all favour to de facto situation. As portuguese I don't demand Olivença from Spain, I don't think Mexico should reclaim the lost land from US, etc. I do think that this site, about israel and palestinians is embiased and pro-israel. Given that I think that this site readers deserve t oread both point of views.

About American Natives, please don't be rude assuming what I know or I do not. You don't even know if I lived or not in US, if I have or not family on US, etc. And yes, American Natives have american citizenship but do not pretend that they're first class citizens.

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alfagis 3/23/2010 6:30:07 PM

So, it's true that palestinians, many of them, are little more than terrorists, but what would you do if even the lands that 1948 UN division gave to them are continuously ocupied by Israel?

You have forgotten that Palestinians, with help of other Arabs attacked Israel in 1948, in an attempt to wipe it out. Israel managed to repel and counterattack, occupying Palestinian territories.All you people keep forgetting that Arabs and only Arabs, and nobody but Arabs, started the war, back in 1948. They had and still have much more manpower and resources.

Arabs living in Israel are able to have decent lives, they have respectable living standard, and they are represented in parliament. On the contrary, if Arabs somehow overpower Israel, they will commit an unthinkable massacre that would eclipse Holocaust by several orders of magnitude.

Far as I understand, Israel is willing to give up occupied territories in exchange for recognition by Arab neighbors.

I agree almost everything with you. What I desagree is the last paragraph. It's true that most israely are willing to give up some land in exchange for peace, like returning Golan Heights to Syria. The problem is Israel is a democracy and its politics are willing to please the radicals in Israel, allowing the building of more colonats, many of them on land demanded by palestinians (which was declared palestina on 1948 division). And this kind of facts (it happened just now, apparently your Administration took offence on that one) are not included on these articles. That's what I wanted to say.

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Hamilcar 3/23/2010 7:12:18 PM

Native American tribes are "nations" inside our Federal Republic. They are also Americans. This is something you do not understand.

Let Mexico try. Mexicans who come here and become Americans are most welcome. Their so called 'type of government' is NOT.

Hi H.

Noted, but that is not the fault of the present day American people or the present day American government. Since WW II the Native American has been given legal privileges and advantages that no other American has. If you know our internal politics; then you would know that some Native American nations have eagerly exploited these advantages and some have not. In those cases where the tribes have, they ARE first class citizens.

PS. I can estimate exactly what you do know since you do not know about the Lakota or the Oglala examples that come to my mind about specific Native American nations that either failed or succeeded to exploit the edges they were given in their treaties.

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trenchsol 3/25/2010 11:39:00 AM

I think that, if real peace accord was reached, Jewish settlements would not be a problem. Israel abandoned some settlements couple of years ago, you might remember pictures of orthodox Jews being dragged away by police.

I don't know what you mean by "my Administration". I am not American, if that is what you meant, I am Croat, but I admire Israel very much. I was even thinking about migrating to Israel, although I am not Jewish origin.