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Subject: How to deal with France?
alexmarra    7/26/2004 10:17:18 AM
as a european (italian) i'm very concerned about the increasing role of France inside the EU. By her ability to undermine alliances (NATO) and to hijack EU on an antiamerican course, France is revealing as the most dangerous enemy of the US (and of US' friends also). Chirac's project is very clear indeed: to separate EU and US (Great Britain will stay with US anyway) in order to remain the only nuclear power in Europe and the only european country having veto right at the UN: the perfect conditions to play an hegemonic role. For the US the problem is: how to deal with this country? Examining the past 2 years we remark that: 1) France has (likely) exercitated huge political pressure on Turkey (read: blackmailed Turkey about her request of joining the EU), to convince the governmment to deny passage to american troops bound for northern Iraq 2) Seriously undermined NATO credibility for years to come: when, immediately before the US attack to Iraq, Turkey asked for NATO assistance, France managed to stop this 3) When a group of countries - GB, Italy, Spain (before Zapatero), Portugal, Poland, Czech republic and so on - took position supporting US against Saddam Hussein, Chirac bluntly told the east european countries to SHUT UP (and, again, blackmailed them) 4)During the whole Iraqi crisis France has tried to politically isolate those countries (as GB, Italy and Poland) who are militarily involved 5) France Has also tried to prevent other countries to give assistance of any kind to the new Iraqi provisional government. Thanks to Mr Chirac, NATO will not employ troops to support Iraqi government. Chirac also tried to deny assistance in training security forces, proposing that the job could be done out of Iraqi borders, for example in ...Rome. 5) Just last week France succeded totally in organizing the european vote against Israeli fence: another little rift between EU and US. How to deal with this ever repeating sabotage? What do you think about it, from your american point of view? Please don't write crap like "war against France", "kill Chirac" or others. Thanks Alex Marra
 
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Ander320    RE:How to deal with France?   8/30/2004 7:09:15 AM
When i read post like these i think we are f*** genius. France 60M people, just >30 000 $ GDP/per Habitant is able to blackmail half of the world, get Russia and Germany on his side and get Turkey opposing US... We are just f*** good bastard!!! No really put your mind up and ask yourself about the possibilities that the turk weren't very found off the unecessary war against Irak. MAy be they weren't that much found of support Kurd and may be their Secret service were a bit more aware of the "dangerous Iraki army" and didn't care that much about the Nato protection after all. Soi they didn't bother to much to oppose France even if France oppose this Nato "protection"
 
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Godofgamblers    RE:How to deal with France?   2/10/2005 7:46:45 PM
i agree with Ander320. i think, alex, that you're overestimating france's power. it took a stand on iraq because it had no other choice but to do so ("you're with us, or against us"). the stand chirac took was consistent with the opinions of french citizens. shouldn't that be the perogative of a leader, to represent the wishes of his people? the same is true of the turks. how many of them were for the invasion of iraq. very few. so it was probably public opinion and not french "blackmail" that made up his mind.
 
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ProDemocracy    RE:How to deal with France?   6/30/2005 10:43:43 AM
Definitely French power is overestimated...their influence in Europe both within the EU and outside of it is no more prominant than British or American influence. Italy and Spain (before their election) support the US, Poland and the E Europeans support the trans-atlantic alliance and typically, Germany aligns herself with the UK/US...France is usually the lone objection to alot of the military action the US takes...they might have former communist states on their side but all in all, their influence all over the globe is negligible.
 
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ProDemocracy    RE:How to deal with France?   7/3/2005 6:44:38 PM
And to clarify - by "former communist states" I mean Russia and China - obviously E Europe learned a lesson from Munich and sticks by the US/UK.
 
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patroclus    RE:How to deal with France?   7/3/2005 7:12:20 PM
as a european (italian) i'm very concerned about the increasing role of France inside the EU. By her ability to undermine alliances (NATO) and to hijack EU on an antiamerican course, France is revealing as the most dangerous enemy of the US (and of US' friends also). Chirac's project is very clear indeed: to separate EU and US (Great Britain will stay with US anyway) in order to remain the only nuclear power in Europe and the only european country having veto right at the UN: the perfect conditions to play an hegemonic role. For the US the problem is: how to deal with this country? Examining the past 2 years we remark that: 1) France has (likely) exercitated huge political pressure on Turkey (read: blackmailed Turkey about her request of joining the EU), to convince the governmment to deny passage to american troops bound for northern Iraq 2) Seriously undermined NATO credibility for years to come: when, immediately before the US attack to Iraq, Turkey asked for NATO assistance, France managed to stop this 3) When a group of countries - GB, Italy, Spain (before Zapatero), Portugal, Poland, Czech republic and so on - took position supporting US against Saddam Hussein, Chirac bluntly told the east european countries to SHUT UP (and, again, blackmailed them) 4)During the whole Iraqi crisis France has tried to politically isolate those countries (as GB, Italy and Poland) who are militarily involved 5) France Has also tried to prevent other countries to give assistance of any kind to the new Iraqi provisional government. Thanks to Mr Chirac, NATO will not employ troops to support Iraqi government. Chirac also tried to deny assistance in training security forces, proposing that the job could be done out of Iraqi borders, for example in ...Rome. 5) Just last week France succeded totally in organizing the european vote against Israeli fence: another little rift between EU and US. How to deal with this ever repeating sabotage? What do you think about it, from your american point of view? Please don't write crap like "war against France", "kill Chirac" or others. Thanks Alex Marra ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, leaving aside the criminal, Jaqcques Chirac, and his close ties with the former Bathist leadership of Iraq, including Saddam Hussein, how should the United States deal with France? The United States should deal with France the same as nations have always dealt with each other, Where our interests coincide, we should co-operate. Where the interests diverge, We should compete(read thwart and deny) against each other. France is not a member of the Anglo-Saxon shared historical community of nations, and thus should expect no more consideration from the United States than say Botswana. They are not part of the "special relationship." Nor does France expect this. They know the real score of international politics. It is evidenced by the way they try(and for the most part fail) to play balance of power politics on the world stage, as I would try, if I ran their foreign policy. The French bashing on one side and the America bashing on the other, in the premise of this thread, is grounded in domestic political nonsense that obscures the real truth that nations(except for the Anglo-Saxon community) have no "friends" only interests. If France has a sour reputation among many states and peoples at the moment, you can lay that at the feet of their incompetent diplomatic corps and their inept foreign policy, which fails to present their interests and objectives in a favorable or beneficial light to their potential partners. Instead they come across as either petulant, petty, sneaky, or double-crossing. That is the impression they left with many European partners in many co-operative projects.(ITERS being the latest example.) It is certainly the same set of reasons that the United States' name is mud across a large part of the planet. So>pot=kettle=black. Patroclus.
 
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