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Subject: Re:Who is Thomas Holsinger
steve_knowlton@yahoo.com    5/16/2002 6:43:32 PM
I agree with the prior poster- whoever wrote the article about the Palestinians is so far from any rational concept of the conflict that I can't figure it out. He seems to hint that genocide would be OK, if only the Israelis had the guts for it. I don't want to detail the problems that any ethical person would have with that viewpoint- it's simply insane. Even if that implication is unintentional, imprisoning 3 million people for the crime of existing and being a potential threat is ridiculous. If the Israelis actually did as Mr. Holsinger suggests, international opinion would force the U.S. to make the Israelis stop- we have a tremendous amount of leverage which we have never really used. In addition to international outrage, there are a lot of Americans who would see that kind of behavior as morally bankrupt. I am not sympathizing with terrorists here, I just don't think you can "neutralize" everyone who might be a threat or you'll find yourself living alone.
 
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bsl    RE:Re:Who is Thomas Holsinger   5/16/2002 11:13:23 PM
"genocide" Moving people is hardly the same as killing them.
 
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Adam Selene to steve knowlton    Who is Thomas Holsinger and why do all the swains adore him?    5/17/2002 9:35:57 AM
Holsinger has not only an unfortunate tendency to "think the unthinkable" (i.e., to explicitly acknowledge nasty facts that soggy-skull'd folks address with psychotic thought-blocking) but also the ability to express them quite straightforwardly. What, you don't like that? Moral philosophy and the conduct of action in an ethical manner involves more than just the sort of kneejerk reliance on unexamined "feelings" which serves the average putz (conservative or "Liberal") in lieu of intellectation. If Holsinger can be faulted at all, it's only for his regrettable tendency to lump all the Paletinians together -- to treat them collectively -- as being uniformly caught up in a culture of blind stupidity and malice. A bit of methodological individualism (out of which is borne the Israeli tendency to value individual human life) is needed in the tempering of Holsinger's observations and conclusions. But it's not at all "ridiculous" to consider the consignment of the entire Palestinian population to confinement in controllable penny-packet prison camps -- to put them into Coventry in such a fashion as both to abate their present threat capacity and to degrade (and eventually destroy) those unique features of the Palestinian culture which produces among them such a robust tendency to go forth and murder unarmed and helpless men, women and children. Throughout history, whole populations have been punished unto death simply because they were *perceived* as posing a threat without actually having ever undertaken any threatening activities whatsoever. The Palestinians have not only achieved a pretty good body count in the process of developing their recent reputation but have also made it pretty clear that the majority of them approve of sending forth ambassadors of their malice in Semtex underwear. The capacity for murder is inherent in every human being. Can the Palestinians hold that capacity in check? If not, how else can they expect to be treated, either individually or as a group?
 
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Trent Telenko    RE:Who is Thomas Holsinger and why do all the swains adore him?    5/17/2002 8:17:12 PM
>If Holsinger can be faulted at all, it's only >for his regrettable tendency to lump all the >Palestinians together -- to treat them >collectively -- as being uniformly caught up in >a culture of blind stupidity and malice. Treating the Palestinians as a monolithic psychotic culture is required, since they kill anyone who doesn't act as part of the collective psychosis. The Palestinians are neither the first, nor likely the last, culture to go completely psychotic. Historically, psychotic cultures are usually met with genocidal reprisal. Holsinger mentioned the price the Japanese could have paid had the Emperor not forced a surrender. There are two other example I can think of off hand. See the following links for one of those examples: link link
 
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FreeTaiwan    Excuse me   6/10/2003 1:14:42 AM
Machiavelli said that people are quicker in forgiving the murder of their fathers than the lost of their property. The intifada begin in the first place because Palestinians have been "moved" from one place to another. "Moving" them again will only fruel the problems of their economy and make them angrier--and don't give me that "terrorists are mostly middle-class" bs. The powerful revolutionary, politically active, and distablizing class of people are usually middle-class, because it is them who has the ability to act effectively while mantaining their identity with the less fortunate of the populis. With no means of morally endorsing acts of Terrorism, concessions ought to be made to pacify the Palestinians. Japan and Germany are not comparable to Palestine, because the aggressors in WWII sought to expand nationalist intererst through an organized politi, while the Palestinians sought to creat a state through unorganized and spontaneous uprising. In Japan and Germany, the populis is indoctrinated from a centralized authority, while in Palestine much of it is done by the Palestinian themselves. The Palestinian people has the freedom to accept the Western narrative, yet they self-willingly indulge in the images of hatred and violence. The ideology is self-prepetuating, not imposed. Regards, Free Taiwan
 
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